Sheffield strip club keeps licence despite opposition by feminist coalition

[stumbledin]

From the way the Guardian reports it (but does anyone think their reporting is unbiased) the undercover filming that campaigners organised has worked against them.

I think the licence will be reviewer again in a year. Have a horrible feeling that if it hadn't been "feminists" campaigning but "local" people the council would have acted differently. The patriarchy likes to be seen to slapping down uppity women.

They didn't even value the opinion of the local Rape Crisis Centre which works nearby.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/sep/17/sheffield-strip-club-keeps-licence-despite-opposition-by-feminist-coalition

I went to a "titty bar" as my colleagues refered to it, in Moscow when there on business.

The man who had insisted our party of four went there when the neighbouring bar closed, did go habitually to this place and spend hours a night slouched on a sofa as close as he could get to the woman whose tits he liked best, she would display her vulva to him, giving him a view from the rear and front in rotation. They are not "dancing", they are giving visuals and selling paid for touching and penetration etc.

The rest of us sat at the bar agog. The women were very, very young, you could actually properly call them girls. They mostly had immature breasts. This caused me the most discomfort. Whilst sitting at the bar a tiny little girl came and asked us if we would like to go out the back. I asked what was on offer and she said come and find out. We declined.

Obviously this was Moscow and there is unlikely to be any regulation there, just violent enforcement as there is in every aspect of Russian business.

It's amazing how you just prove the point further. Thank you for being part of what keeps our clubs open. Keep on going, exactly as you are. You do more for us in your backwards efforts than than we ever have

This, they never see it though.
Anyone with half a brain reading the thread sees it all for exactly what it is.
The fucking stupid thing is that I actually AGREE with them that something needs to be done about abused women, but instead of come to a solution about that, or talk sensibly about it, they'd much rather push me away further, what's that all about?!
Not DARVO before anyone tries pulling that one, it's my actual experience and thoughts.
As you say, they're helping you more, and as that's not what they want it's having the exact opposite effect!!
Some middle fence, reasonable posters you can engage with but the ones like the two confusion posters upthread there's absolutely no point engaging with outside of a playground mentality, as you say that's the level you deal with at.
And you're right, people are starting to see it.

Pleasure to "meet" you Roses.

I'm off to do some, er happy hookering and do the grocery shop.

Again, please show everyone you can this thread.

Courtney x

Thank you Waterl00

That makes me even more uneasy about the constant references to "girls". No doubt Courtney will be back to say she never saw underage girls but the point is still that referring to adult women as "girls" is very dubious.

Sorry. That should say fux sake shouldn't it

just so you know it's having the complete opposite effect in what you're trying to achieve

Except it's not. It's the likes of Datun and Lang and others like/before them that have helped me articulate my own thoughts to myself on why I instinctively was made uneasy by the presence of strip clubs. I wanted to believe the myth of total female empowerment, I used to exercise cognitive dissonance to squash that unease and argue for freedom of choice when I was younger, poo-poo-ing women who thought strippers didn't know their own minds. But the more I learned about the social and economic subjugation of women as a class, as set out by the wise women here (and others elsewhere), the more I felt as though pieces had fallen into place and I could point to the valid factors behind that unease: the fundamental power imbalance between male and female; the entitlement of men to women's bodies; the commodification of something that should never, ever be commodified, the underbelly of trafficking and coercion. That was one of many such moments when I moved away from feminism that centred men to one which centres women, and that holds women to account when they act as apologists and enablers for those men who would like to retain the current power imbalance and/or roll back the gains women have made.

So yes, please do keep on doing what you're doing Datun, Lang, Tentacle et alia.

There have been references to Thatcherite values. I'm not a Thatcherite but I am politically right of centre. I support capitalism and the free market. I do not support free market activities which are damaging to society as a whole.

Courtney's right to drop her knickers for £000s of pounds so men can see her cunt might be fantastic for Courtney and the sad sacks looking at it but it is not good for society as a whole.

The power of MN... single handedly keeping strip joints open around the world! Nothing to do with horny dudes. No sirree.

Management need to keep a sharper eye on reviews. It’s almost as if they’re not bothered by the conflation of “dance” with “services.”

Blame the women tho.

Except it's not.

For YOU, and obviously others too it's not as that's your experience.
For ME,and I know others too have said, it's having the exact opposite effect though.
Cos guess what? We're all different, with different experiences and thoughts.

Waterl00

There are quite a few people who have had experience of strip bars, lapdancing clubs, who wouldn't generally go to them. Caught up in a corporate event, being young and naive, peer pressure, etc.

I doubt there are many people who haven't actually experienced them at some point.

And yes, of course they're there so certain men can objectify women and wank off to it.

There is literally no other point.

It's just a little jarring, when someone pretends it's empowering to the women on the one hand, but inadvertently describes them as victims on the other, gets angry with women, and at the same time gleefully tells them that they are helping her out!

The contradictions are difficult to behold.

And it's all a little brittle.

OnlyTheTitOfTheIceberg YY I totally agree and will add Lass to that list as well.

I really want to believe it, but comments on how it's just like counselling and these poor guys need a bit of therapy because their wives don't understand them just sound like really crap excuses.

the commodification of something that should never, ever be commodified

This.

Oh come on, using the word girls to describe women isn't automatically dodgy!
I know loads of people who refer to their friends and social circles as "the girls".
Doesn't have to be immediately urgh dodgy. Could be of course, but that's not immediately where I go.
It's a common turn of phrase.

Sealioning, yet again.

There have been references to Thatcherite values. I'm not a Thatcherite but I am politically right of centre. I support capitalism and the free market. I do not support free market activities which are damaging to society as a whole.

Exactly. It's an extremist iteration of neoliberal Thatcherism. Nothing to do with the left. Nothing to do with the centre. Nothing to do with the moderate, market economy right. And nothing to do with One Nation Toryism. It's an extremist libertarian position.

As Courtney is only too happy to explain and illustrate. At length.

Surely not closdes surely not

Courtenay explained ealier that the discussion here was primary school level. Clearly there is no primary school level discussion of the sex industry that is acceptable to anyone nor should there be and as a previous poster said quite rightly :

"I was discussing future careers with my 12 DDs and we covered many different jobs. Not once did I offer up serving men's sexual wants as a career option.."

What I saw was young girls inducted into a working life before they were of an age to actually understand what was happening to them. A colleague who was with me at the club also regulary voluntered for a group run shelter for abused and homeless women in Moscow, all he could say was they don't look as unhappy as the ones now on the street.

I realise I don't have Coutenay's empowered experience and knowledge , all I have is the experience of a child offering to sell me sex inside a strip club in a major tourist area of a major city. I am female BTW.

I believe that the age of 18 is still too young (looking at the photo of those protesters) to tell me that being paid by men to make them a vast profit by showing other men your gentitals is empowering. But the market wants and needs this extreme youth, doesn't it.

Except it's not.

I honestly think Roses genuinely believes that 90% of people will read this thread and think she talks sense.

That's where extremist individualism gets you, I'm sorry to say.

I honestly feel bereft that, in all my years of management, I've never had to fire a staff member for buying coke off a punter in the loos, or for kicking over a barbecue or for stealing bottled of vodka and slapping other staff members.

I think at one I'd think 'am I hiring the right calibre of staff to work for me', at two I'd think 'something is wrong with our recruitment procedures' and at three I'd book myself onto a fair and effective recruitment course.

Unless the only requirement is to be happy to get your kit off of course. Oh, I forget the certificate in counselling and having been on a sales workshop. Silly me.

I’d like cunt to come back

She seemed to be able to explain things in a very clear and concise way and id be very interested in her further ideas for staff safety in these clubs

Quite obviously not all clubs are the same and differ in how they treat their staff...like every place of work

But I appreciate that trying to find a middle ground doesn’t suit everyone

I honestly think Roses genuinely believes that 90% of people will read this thread and think she talks sense.
Luckily I don't give a flying fuck whether you or others think I talk sense or not.

t I actually AGREE with them that something needs to be done about abused women, but instead of come to a solution about that, or talk sensibly about it, they'd much rather push me away further, what's that all about?!

Now that’s ironic

Luckily I don't give a flying fuck whether you or others think I talk sense or not.

Why keep banging on about the sterling job you're doing in gaining approval from the readers/lurkers then?

Deary me. Consistency, please.

Thats what ive tried to do...read and learn

But some of the language being used is really alienating

Its a bit like being on a brexit thread

That's what I try to do read and learn

That's how I started off on here.
All used to agree with me, be nicey nice.
As I was agreeing with everything.
The more you see and read though, the more you have your eyes opened.
Try posting against something they believe in and having a differing opinion of your own instead of sitting neutrally most of the time though.
Just try it.
Might actually get to see it a bit then.

Roses trying to recruit Rufus into seeing how great Strip clubs are.

See it all now.