Sheffield strip club keeps licence despite opposition by feminist coalition

[stumbledin]

From the way the Guardian reports it (but does anyone think their reporting is unbiased) the undercover filming that campaigners organised has worked against them.

I think the licence will be reviewer again in a year. Have a horrible feeling that if it hadn't been "feminists" campaigning but "local" people the council would have acted differently. The patriarchy likes to be seen to slapping down uppity women.

They didn't even value the opinion of the local Rape Crisis Centre which works nearby.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/sep/17/sheffield-strip-club-keeps-licence-despite-opposition-by-feminist-coalition

I think the fact that women are shamed for this kind of work is what makes it different.

If I worked in Sainsbury's and there was a breach in worker's behaviour and I ended up being filmed without my knowledge, yes it would be unsettling but my life would not be over.

If I'm filmed against my knowledge in a strip club and the person who has filmed me without my knowledge or consent then allows or even accidentally causes that footage to reach the public sphere my life could be over.

If I'm a dancer with a religious family or a controlling bf or even just a family who, like my own would simply not understand why I have chosen to make the decisions I have then I could lose my home, my support system even my life.

Roses did the person filming pay to get in to the club just like anyone else? So they paid to see somebody who publicly chooses to dance naked for those who pay money?

If they did, why does the fact the customer has paid mean that means it's OK to film someone naked?
That kind of logic would have to apply for everyone - if it's alright to film because you've paid.

Windrush was exposed for violations by undercover whistleblowers.
The residents filmed did not have capacity to consent to filming
They weren't all in the nud though, were they.
The fact you don't realise there's a difference is astonishing.
.Yet it was shown on bb1. That documentary positively changed the Care industry
Right, well there's a world of difference between publishing unconsensual nude pics on national TV and fully clothed ones.
It's great it was changed for the better.
Your analogy would only work if the solution was to "ban all care industry providers". Like it is in this thread's case.
Make positive changes.
Not just shut them all down for a rotten few.

Um. Think about it....bollocks is what it is.

Yeah. I don't think anyone is going to take the opinion of a random on the Internet, over the four of five groups involved, a political party, and the local council. 👍

Roses I think you're missing the fundamental point that the fact that sex-work exists diminishes and objectifies women.

Sex work shouldn't exist. If we lived in a balanced and equitable society, sex work wouldn't exist.

The fact it does exist highlights huge problems with our society, the fact women are commodified is harmful and an inhibition to a healthy societal relationship between the sexes.

I'm really not intetested that the occasional woman sees it as positive and empowering.

Their empowerment is utterly damaging to 99% of women, and engenders the idea that sexual availibilty to men is a state of grace and that men's desires are paramount.

Bollocks.
No you ain't. I don't even know why I asked.

It's all Belle what's her face.

I know 1 sex worker who's happy therefore all are.

Wake up.
The real world is seedy.
It's sick.
So sick we disguise it and dress it up as glamorous.

Together with ex-employees.

Which is it?

Answer came there none.

We'll get to forty pages and not one naysayer will have addressed the actual women who worked in this actual club and provided witness statements about the coercive and abusive employment conditions there.

The purple prose, misquoting of who said what, the endless redirection back to women in the industry who haven't been abused? All to prevent you from discussing the women who were abusively employed, who made witness statements about it and whose statements were borne out by video evidence.

Those women? Must change the subject so that we don't talk about those women. They don't exist if we do anything, over forty pages, to avoid talking about them.

You know shite all love and truth is you don't care.

That's literally hilarious coming from you to anyone on this thread.

You work with prostitutes. That's your experience. That's it's limit. Understand that.

I worked as a dancer for ten years. Not with them, to forward on a second hand story. As one. But you're ignorant, blinkered and rude enough to tell me you speak on behalf of me?? You and your opinions represent me and the dancing community in zero way.

The dancing community, the online community, the sex film industry, you have no experience in. So don't speak for us.

And again, sex work is such a wide umbrella it's impossible to say one way or another that ALL sex work is blanketly exploitative and abusive.

That is just absurd, it's the equivalent of saying just because we know some nail bars are staffed by trafficked individuals and are examples of modern day slavery therefore let's shut ALL nail bars and any women wanting to get their nails done are actually submitting to the patriarchy.

Yes some strip clubs are poorly run and the council authorities don't bother checking that all the correct regulations are followed but the answer is not to shut down the clubs and take the livelihoods of the women working there away. The answer is to put pressure onto government authorities or the strip clubs themselves to make sure they follow the appropriate regulations.

The dancing community, the online community, the sex film industry, you have no experience in. So don't speak for us.

What, in the same way you're speaking for the women in Spearmint Rhino in Sheffield? Calling their testimony bollocks?

Bollocks. No you ain't. I don't even know why I asked

Who's that aimed at, seeing as there's no asterisks or even a name?
Seeing as it's been pointed out to me that if you don't asterisk or name it seems like you're talking to yourself. (Mine did at least have asterisks the two different lines/paragraph just made it not work properly)
Just letting you know before people pull you up on it as it seems like you're talking to yourself.

Yes some strip clubs are poorly run and the council authorities don't bother checking that all the correct regulations are followed but the answer is not to shut down the clubs and take the livelihoods of the women working there away. The answer is to put pressure onto government authorities or the strip clubs themselves to make sure they follow the appropriate regulations.

By whistleblowing because self and authority regulatory frameworks have both failed, perchance?

So don't speak for us.

I'm not speaking for you. I don't care about you.

I care about the ex-employees of Spearmint Rhino who gave witness testimony about the abusive environment their employers maintained and whose testimony was borne out by video evidence.

This thread isn't about you. Or your purple prose. It's about them.

Of course not Lang.

There's been a funny old POV on FWR of late.

I'm not sure they're all men, our society is very unhealthy at the moment and sickness begets sickness.

It makes me sad that people, men or women would advocate for such an inherently unhealthy society. I don't think anyone wins when society is so fucked.

It's just base and grim.

There's nothing enlightened or intellectual about it.

Lang: We'll get to forty pages and not one naysayer will have addressed the actual women who worked in this actual club and provided witness statements about the coercive and abusive employment conditions there.

Precisely.

But surely the answer for this particular strip club is new management. The previous management were obviously incapable of enforcing the law, but as myself and Courtney can attest this has not been a problem in the clubs we've worked at.

The answer is to make sure businesses are capable of implementing the law and supporting their workers in following it. If those breeches were being committed, then yes quite patently that club needs closing down whilst it hires people who are capable of doing their job.

any women wanting to get their nails done are actually submitting to the patriarchy

Funny you should say that as there actually was a thread about that exact subject a while back
OP calling for a ban on women doing their nails and people accusing others of only wanting to do it cos patriarchy etc.
That was a "fun" thread. (Fun for want of a better word!)
It'll still be here if you scroll back lol
(Different to mid thread before anyone starts as it's not to single out any particular poster like before)

OP calling for a ban on women doing their nails

Just read back, and for clarity I meant OP of the nail thread, not the OP of this one...

then yes quite patently that club needs closing down whilst it hires people who are capable of doing their job.

What job is that?
What sex were the previous managers?
Do they have a degree?
A recognised qualification in business?

I'm not speaking for you. I don't care about you

That much is obvious.
It's not feminism that cares for all women at all.
That sees women as individual beings capable of independent thought.
Just a certain "type" of women is to be bothered with.
And you just spelled it out so clearly with that one post.
Then you wonder why people can't ever get on board with your type of feminism.
You alienate far more than you win round but you won't see that.

What, in the same way you're speaking for the women in Spearmint Rhino in Sheffield? Calling their testimony bollocks?

Read what I said in response to OP asking about testimonials from the "sacked" women.

I've seen a couple of prostitutes pretending they weren't anything other than dancers slip into a club I worked in. In our case we caught them up to no good. We reported to management and they were sacked when they turned up for the next shift.

Clubs won't stand for it. At all. But I guarantee if you spoke to either of them, would you get the honest version "we don't have the skills to entertain someone for an hour as a dancer, but want the dancers hourly rate, so we turned up, masqueraded as dancers, were actually prostitutes, got caught and got told to leave immediately(and banned for life from the premises entirely)"

Or. Would you get... "We got sacked because all the girls in there do extras and we were forced to if we wanted to keep our jobs. Poor exploited us. Nasty evil club. Wasn't us guv'nor"

You'll get number 2. Fact. Because that's exactly what one of the prostitutes was claiming. And it gets lapped up, especially by people who's agenda it supports.

So don't speak for us

I'm not speaking for you. I don't care about you

I care about the ex-employees of Spearmint Rhino who gave witness testimony about the abusive environment their employers maintained and whose testimony was borne out by video evidence.

This thread isn't about you. Or your purple prose. It's about them

Thank you Lang 👏🏼
And thank you to the whistleblowers who have highlighted the issues Sheffield Council have chosen to ignore.

Roses - can you confirm - and if it doesn't literally erase you from existence or somesuch - that you repeatedly misquoted me in this thread, while making accusations and attributing to me views I do not hold?

Cunt, do you see strip clubs as an excellent and neccessary place that should exist?

Do you have children? Would you like a son of yours to treat women in strip clubs as men treat you?

Would you like to bring up a man that goes to strip-clubs?

Would that please you?