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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Sheffield strip club keeps licence despite opposition by feminist coalition

999 replies

stumbledin · 18/09/2019 16:13

From the way the Guardian reports it (but does anyone think their reporting is unbiased) the undercover filming that campaigners organised has worked against them.

I think the licence will be reviewer again in a year. Have a horrible feeling that if it hadn't been "feminists" campaigning but "local" people the council would have acted differently. The patriarchy likes to be seen to slapping down uppity women.

They didn't even value the opinion of the local Rape Crisis Centre which works nearby. Sad

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/sep/17/sheffield-strip-club-keeps-licence-despite-opposition-by-feminist-coalition

OP posts:
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9
PennysPocket · 19/09/2019 22:06

How the heck am I being stupid when you've just admitted your phone went bonkers and posted something you didn't mean?

You asked am I being stupid. I answered yes.
Don't ask the question if you don't like the answer.

And the word is FUCK.
Be a grown up for gods sake.

Look you take 10 happy hooker tales from chanel 4 and believe women and girls choose sex for cash globally as a career choice.
I see women choosing the path of least resistance and see a global impact on females who are raped and trafficked for sex.

RosesAndRaindrops · 19/09/2019 22:10

And the word is FUCK
be a grown up for gods sake.

Grin

Is it?
Jesus, these threads get more batshit.
Grown ups must always swear "proper" now.
I'm done Grin
Sorry I'm FUCKING done lol

Datun · 19/09/2019 22:13

Datun I absolutely agree. I find it astonishing. I'd love to know what they purport to have seen. Because it's so unbelievably far from anything I've physically experienced, I can't even understand how you'd start to breach 200 things in 20 minutes.

I can't be bothered to reread the report and the links, but from memory It was sexual harassment, sexual assault, and disallowed touching.

In one club. In 20 minutes.

As Lang said

This thread is about a particular establishment, known to be breaking its licensing conditions on a regular basis and opening up its employees to exploitation, illegal acts and coercion. The licensing authority failed in its duty to act. So an undercover sting took place. The evidence of that sting was backed up by witness testimonies from a number of ex-employees of that establishment, confirming these employment conditions had existed over a long period of time.

Tell me: why should I believe you and not them?

ILikeyourHairyHands · 19/09/2019 22:14

I haven't read the whole fucking thread, I'll go back and do that in a minute. I just want to say to the choosey choicers, that I used to be incredibly libretarian, do what you like, I thought, as long as it hurts no-one, as long as it hurts no-one, and when you're young and feckless, and have little thought beyond yourself (even as an engaged and intelligent person, young people don't really have the capacity to see that far beyond their circumstances) individual acts are very much based in the solipsism of youth. I can take drugs because it's my body and I can choose what to do with it, ergo, drug-taking is fine and has no wider societal harm other than what I may visit upon myself.

The same goes for sex work. This is my body and I shall monetise it in any way I see fit, and any harm I come to is what I have visited upon myself.

However, as I got older, I realised that we don't make choices in a vacuum, if I choose to use drugs there's a supply chain of misery that gets those drugs to me, there are countless unpleasant people involved in the world-wide drug industry that rely on hapless dupes like me to keep the show on the road.

The same goes for the sex industry, I'm not adverse to the idea that there may be the odd woman who sees this as empowering and is unharmed personally by sex work.

But the industry is littered with misery and the fact that men feel able to buy women has a huge effect on society, it taints how we view women and sex if it's commodified.

Porn and its ubiquity affect countless young people now, and will damage them and their ability to have happy and fulfilling sexual relationships.

Ultimately I'm still a libretarian , I still believe that people should be free to act as long as their actions are not detrimental to others.

There are far fewer actions that fit that criteria than I once believed though.

MsMelanie · 19/09/2019 22:15

@penny

No one is suggesting that trafficked women and exploitation is a good thing. The area of work you describe is horrifying - exploited, addicted to drugs, poverty, deprived area. Everyone agrees that is a tragic life

But that is the very worst.

It’s like comparing a trafficked servant to that of an employee cleaner working and saying they should both be eradicated because you can’t have one without the other. It’s a nonsense and ignorant argument.

PennysPocket · 19/09/2019 22:15

Well done. That's the most honest you have been all thread.
Swearing is not clever but prentending to swear is pathetic.
Say what you mean.

Creepster · 19/09/2019 22:15

Renewing the license in the face of that much abuse sends a clear message to employees that the abuse is acceptable to the licensing authority.

RosesAndRaindrops · 19/09/2019 22:16

So an undercover sting took place

Not by any official body though and thats your big difference.
Where do we stop with just anyone filming us (us as in women) naked without our consent for a greater good?
There's laws against that for a reason.

Datun · 19/09/2019 22:16

Roses, I say this all the time, you need to put asterisks either side of the text you're quoting.

It's very simple. Two keystrokes. An asterisk either side.

It aids communication very effectively.

Somerville · 19/09/2019 22:19

How dare anybody film me without my knowledge at all and especially when I am potentially naked in a private dance. How dare they.

This is a bit awkward, Roses but you’re clearly playing morality police here. Which you’ve spent a long thread railing about.

I couldn’t be happier if no more women were sexually abused in these places and no further filming was necessary. Whilst they are being abused I support the whistleblowers gathering the evidence, like they did for these 200 occurrences in 20 minutes. (Jesus wept.)

PennysPocket · 19/09/2019 22:19

*But that is the very worst.'

Nope it's not.
It's the norm.

You can pretend that the deprived drug filed abusive women are murdered stuff is unusual but women die so often they barely report it.
I have worked Nottingham. Liverpool. Birmingham. Newcastle and Leeds. All northern but all the same.
There are no happy hooker stories.

Datun · 19/09/2019 22:22

But that is the very worst.

So what is 200 breaches in 20 minutes at one club? Normal?

RosesAndRaindrops · 19/09/2019 22:23

Swearing is not clever but prentending to swear is pathetic

Why though?
You'll be happy to know I've done some proper swears on the thread too, though - but what the fuck has whether I swear properly or not got to do with anything lol?!
Just...ookay Grin

RosesAndRaindrops · 19/09/2019 22:27

, I say this all the time, you need to put asterisks either side of the text you're quoting.

I did - the fact it had split up into two paragraphs made it not work properly though.
Thanks for your advice though

PennysPocket · 19/09/2019 22:27

Roses did the person filming pay to get in to the club just like anyone else?
So they paid to see somebody who publicly chooses to dance naked for those who pay money?
Windrush was exposed for violations by undercover whistleblowers.
The residents filmed did not have capacity to consent to filming. Yet it was shown on bb1.
That documentary positively changed the Care industry. Yet those filmed did not consent.
Why is this filming different?

MsMelanie · 19/09/2019 22:27

In your limited work Penny it’s the norm.

It does not represent most sex workers experiences in this country. Most are not on the streets. Not all sex workers have sex, take clothes off. Most is online. So quite frankly it’s not the same and you’re view is limited

RosesAndRaindrops · 19/09/2019 22:31

There are no happy hooker stories.

You've got people on the thread telling you that they are fine with what they do.
Instead, you'd (general you) rather dismiss them, pretend they're not there, and say they're astoturfers/and/or bots instead out to spread a myth,
Nobody's disputing there aren't abused people too (I'm not anyway, not speaking for anyone else) but you (general you) don't get to discredit and silence others to fit your view.
We're not all the same. We all have different experiences.

PennysPocket · 19/09/2019 22:32

In your limited work Penny it’s the norm.

Ha ha limited work.... 20 years working with women across 5 different cities... But yeah I am limited.

What's your experience then?

RosesAndRaindrops · 19/09/2019 22:33

Oops the top line should be bolded sorry Blush
Top line was a quote There are no happy hooker stories

need a quote poster function, sort it art MN

RosesAndRaindrops · 19/09/2019 22:34

What's your experience then?

Err....... she's literally just being sharing her experience in the industry on the thread.

ILikeyourHairyHands · 19/09/2019 22:34

I'm a bit confused by the 'filming without consent' argument that's raging on here, either a strip club is a totally legitimate place of work and filming breaches of emploment or work-place law in that environemt is completely within the bounds of any other whilstle-blowing exercise and therefore good and in the interests of employees.

Or there's something fundamentally wrong about a strip-club that means filming within its environs is a hideous infringement, even when doing so highlights unsavory and illiegal practices.

Which is it?

MsMelanie · 19/09/2019 22:35

20yrs working with disadvantaged women in one area of the industry - the one area that we can agree is exploitative . That penny is your experience.

I know sex workers personally as friends and I LISTEN to what they want online.

PennysPocket · 19/09/2019 22:38

Fuck me half my life spent working with women who are one way or another screwed by men but 1 happy hooker tells me I know nothing cos they chose this life... If I was a twat I would say you are a man....

Justify your life choices all you like but when you have to identify women in the morgue cos no fucker knows who they are and you are their last known contact then tell me sex work is a positive life choice.

You know shite all love and truth is you don't care.

PennysPocket · 19/09/2019 22:43

I know sex workers personally as friends and I LISTEN to what they want online.

I have known over 400 sex workers. Have you?
You know them on line.... Great. You fed their kids? Taken their kids to school cos mum was beaten too bad by a punter?
You taken them food nappies baby milk? Paid their leccy top up?
Confronted their pimp at the door when she just discharged from hospital?

Done that then?

Courtney555 · 19/09/2019 22:43

So what is 200 breaches in 20 minutes at one club? Normal?

Um. Think about it....bollocks is what it is. Now I'm saying it out loud, what this claims is they managed to illegally film a separate breach of regulations, every 6 seconds continually, for 20 minutes. Flick yourself on the arm every six seconds for the next twenty minutes non stop. That's the frequency they claim. Just how many people were filming?????

That just didn't happen. Maybe something did, I'm open to that, subject to the report, but those numbers are impossible.

And quite correctly, there was no "undercover sting" there was a bunch of women, that entitled and self important that they illegally filmed us for their greater good.