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Original poster

Sheffield strip club keeps licence despite opposition by feminist coalition

999 replies

stumbledin · 18/09/2019 16:13

From the way the Guardian reports it (but does anyone think their reporting is unbiased) the undercover filming that campaigners organised has worked against them.

I think the licence will be reviewer again in a year. Have a horrible feeling that if it hadn't been "feminists" campaigning but "local" people the council would have acted differently. The patriarchy likes to be seen to slapping down uppity women.

They didn't even value the opinion of the local Rape Crisis Centre which works nearby. Sad

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/sep/17/sheffield-strip-club-keeps-licence-despite-opposition-by-feminist-coalition

OP posts:
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9
Trewser · 19/09/2019 16:32

At its finest, stripping weaves athletics, performance, showmanship, sales, counseling and art together. It's genuinely unlike any other job in that respect

Jesus.

Datun · 19/09/2019 16:32

In all honesty it really did take me working in one to appreciate the value they CAN offer to women. The comradeship between the women is for me unrivalled.

Why do you think that is? What is it about the job that intensifies the comradeship? Genuine question.

LangCleg · 19/09/2019 16:34

I think strip clubs should be based around the performance aspect. Less of the lap dancing and more of the athletics on the pole.

Mate, if it stopped being obvious wank fodder, there wouldn't be any strip clubs to perform in. It's a pipe dream.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 19/09/2019 16:34

I'm not sure why we would want clubs where men pay to watch women be athletic in a sexy way then counsel them. Have we run out of ways to pander to men's egos and their cocks at the same time, or just out of ideas for ways for women to make a living that don't involve both?

BarbaraStrozzi · 19/09/2019 16:35

It's no coincidence that a huge number of women who work in these clubs or at least the happy student contingency are training or trained in some form of therapy.

Correlation is not causation. It's something of a black joke among professionals in mental health services/counselling/psychology that people are often drawn to these careers precisely because their own mental health and boundaries aren't in brilliant shape - a case not so much of "physician, heal thyself" but more "want to heal thyself? Choose to become a physician."

Wanting to help/counsel screwed up men who choose to go to seedy clubs to lech over women (then go home and wank about it) isn't prima facie evidence that the women engaging in this are simply highly empathetic individuals with a keen interest in psychology as well as surprising athleticism. It could equally well be read as showing that they have something deeply screwed up about their own personal boundaries, that they mistake the sympathy and empathy one engages in reciprocal friendships with propping up men who are losers.

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly · 19/09/2019 16:35

I think strip clubs should be based around the performance aspect. Less of the lap dancing and more of the athletics on the pole. I think if strip clubs moved towards that basis the demographic of punter would change.

well yeah....cos then it would be gymnastics

and while there are plenty of heavy breathers who like to watch women perform gymnatics, I'm not sure they'll drop £250 on bottles of champagne

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 19/09/2019 16:36

I'm beginning to think we need to color code ourselves or something to help Roses figure out who's who. It's like lack of object permanence, the forum commenter version.

CuntAmongstThePigeons · 19/09/2019 16:39

Hi kittens
Great to see you back btw (We may not agree on this subject but I bloody love reading your analysis of all things trans)

I totally get why you wouldn't counsel them. And tbf no one should have to do anything they don't want to. But I do believe there is value in trying to engage with people.

And surely if other people DO want to counsel them. If they see some intrinsic value in talking to this person, trying to educate them, or even gently encourage them to look at something from an alternative viewpoint that's good?

I mean I've peak transed more people in strip clubs than anywhere else. I talk to the men about the way they view women, I talk a lot about feminist analysis. Funnily enough I talk a lot about radical feminist analysis. I talk about their relationship to the women in their life how they would feel about their daughter doing the job.

BarbaraStrozzi · 19/09/2019 16:40

and while there are plenty of heavy breathers who like to watch women perform gymnatics, I'm not sure they'll drop £250 on bottles of champagne

I can't help but reflect that if it genuinely was about the athleticism and gymnastic ability, it wouldn't have to be done naked, then we wouldn't be having to have this absurd conversation, whereby we are expected to believe simultaneously that stripping is in no way demeaning and is in fact every bit as much "work" as any other way of making money, and at the same time believe that being filmed by a whistleblower is a vile intrusion into women's privacy (whereas being leched over by punters is in no way an intrusion).

And before anyone says "that's because they consent to being leched over by the punters", bear in mind that the stripper has NO control over who comes into the club - only the doorstaff exercise control.

Datun · 19/09/2019 16:40

Mate, if it stopped being obvious wank fodder, there wouldn't be any strip clubs to perform in. It's a pipe dream.

And the objectification, degradation and demeaning of women is what gets very, very many men off. It has to include misogyny, else it ain't hot.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 19/09/2019 16:40

I know this is radical and all, but how about women be athletic without a side order of being sexy and offering ego massages to men?

It's so weird trying to talk to people who're caught up in this mindset where it's just assumed that of course this is the normal and appropriate male/female dynamic in a place of business.

LangCleg · 19/09/2019 16:42

well yeah....cos then it would be gymnastics

Or Cirque du Soleil. As in not a strip club.

RosesAndRaindrops · 19/09/2019 16:42

I don't care about their problems and I don't see why any other woman should be expected to either

That's just it, isn't it?
You don't see that for other women, they might not see it as expected to and do it of their own free will.
Can you really not accept we're not all the same?
Anyone saying they want to is either not to be believed or is a man.
What's that all about?

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 19/09/2019 16:44

Cirque de Soliel is not my cup of tea but I really hope the performers aren't expected to circulate and offer talk therapy to audience members. Especially not while the audience member is examining their nipples.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 19/09/2019 16:46

And again, let's remember that we're talking about a club that most definitely wasn't some sort of sex positive wonderland of happy strippers who love doubling as underpaid psychiatrists. We know this because a. lots of them quit because they weren't happy there and b.there is footage showing how very un-idyllic it was. So maybe ease up on the bait and switch.

LangCleg · 19/09/2019 16:47

Ah, there you are Roses. Remind me: did I, or did I not, ever think workplace CCTV was a good idea?

I can go to forty pages too, you know.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 19/09/2019 16:48

I can go to forty pages too, you know.

I can't, I have shit to do and it's my MILs birthday!

BarbaraStrozzi · 19/09/2019 16:48

And again, let's remember that we're talking about a club that most definitely wasn't some sort of sex positive wonderland of happy strippers who love doubling as underpaid psychiatrists. We know this because a. lots of them quit because they weren't happy there and b.there is footage showing how very un-idyllic it was. So maybe ease up on the bait and switch.

Yup. If you're going to do forced teaming at least try to do it with a basic level of plausibility.

Datun · 19/09/2019 16:49

Roses you need to brush up on your reading skills. Two of your last couple of posts have completely misread who the poster talking about.

RosesAndRaindrops · 19/09/2019 16:50

and at the same time believe that being filmed by a whistleblower is a vile intrusion into women's privacy (whereas being leched over by punters is in no way an intrusion) And before anyone says "that's because they consent to being leched over by the punters", bear in mind that the stripper has NO control over who comes into the club - only the doorstaff exercise control*

Some obviously are acting of their own free will, giving consent, wanting to work there.
I agree that the stripper has no control over who comes into the club, but why does that automatically mean that the woman by default isn't allowed to choose, has her choice of work taken away?
Surely if someone abused, we should be cracking down on THEM not the stripper.
(whereas being leched over by punters is in no way an intrusion)
It is if you don't want to be, it's a big intrusion, but is it still an intrusion if it was something you wanted to do and happy with?
You wouldn't feel it an intrusion.
It'd be your choice to be "leched over."

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 19/09/2019 16:51

I'm telling you, Datun, color coding. It's the wave of the MN future.

MsMelanie · 19/09/2019 16:51

This is a failing branch of feminism that fails to even listen to those who have experience within the industry. Calling names, questioning the sex of posters and trying to belittle those who actually support women’s rights . It’s like a cult: this is what we think, this is what we do, this is how women should act.

CuntAmongstThePigeons · 19/09/2019 16:52

I'm sorry I'm going to begin to struggle to address all the right bits to the right people but I hope you can understand my ramblings

I think it was Barbara who mentioned causation? Yes I'm sure that's definitely the case for some people. I'm not sure if that's the same for all walks of life or jobs though? Isn't there statistics for doctor's being narcissistic?

I just find the either/or option really limiting. Can a club not involve women performing without being seedy? Is it the nakedness or the men?

What about clubs that have equal patronage from men and women but have acts performing semi nude doing pole/fire/aerial?

Datun - I'm not sure tbh. Definitely everyone being a woman helped, and I'm sure for a large part because the women are essentially pitted against the men. But if I'm completely honest I genuinely think because it attracts a very specific kind of personality. Very empathetic, confident, women focused, pride and confidence in their bodies and what their bodies are capable of. An understanding of the power dynamics between men and women. I'm sure lots more!

BarbaraStrozzi · 19/09/2019 16:52

Oh look, it's what... 9.00 am on the west coast of the USA, and a new shift is coming online!

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly · 19/09/2019 16:53

oh ladies!

the branch of feminism that doesn't look kindly on women's bodies being comodified is failing

Sad