Sheffield strip club keeps licence despite opposition by feminist coalition

[stumbledin]

From the way the Guardian reports it (but does anyone think their reporting is unbiased) the undercover filming that campaigners organised has worked against them.

I think the licence will be reviewer again in a year. Have a horrible feeling that if it hadn't been "feminists" campaigning but "local" people the council would have acted differently. The patriarchy likes to be seen to slapping down uppity women.

They didn't even value the opinion of the local Rape Crisis Centre which works nearby.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/sep/17/sheffield-strip-club-keeps-licence-despite-opposition-by-feminist-coalition

That isn't answering what I actually asked though.
Because whistleblowing has to be in the public interest, Rose. What don't you get? If it wasn't in the public interest you'd have a point, but it was, so you don't. If some random does it, it won't be in the public interest, so they will be treated different*

How is that answering what I asked?

I understand whistleblowing in this sense is in the public interest.
If there's violations of rules/and/or abuse etc of course it needs exposing.
What you don't seem to be able to understand though is that when I'm using the word random, I was using it as in the sense of a random person off the street taking it upon themselves to do it.
Unregulated members of the public taking it upon themselves to film, you can't just say "I'm a feminist so it's alright" to.
Naked images should be regulated and with consent.
You presumably think it's fine.
It isn't.

For me, the most enlightening bit, is all the men who are financially or orgasmically invested in exploiting women, coming on the thread at the beginning and telling feminists who object that they are the sex offenders. 🤣

That, and their instant identification by the 'been round the block a few times' feminists.

I still find the behaviour shocking, if not surprising.

I was using it as in the sense of a random person off the street taking it upon themselves to do it.
Unregulated members of the public taking it upon themselves to film, you can't just say "I'm a feminist so it's alright" to.

No, they used it to whistle blow. Submitted it to the council and the council identified numerous license breaches. As well as sexual harassment and exploitation. It doesn't matter if it was feminists, or, in this case ex police officers.

The context was it was used to whistle blow.

How else do you think whistleblowing works? It's covert. That's why it's whistleblowing.

How do you know they're men though?
Because we don't sound "woman" enough?
Can you not see what you're doing there?
If you don't think like a woman, whatever the fuck that means you must be a man?

Datun
Yes.
I know what whistle blowing is.
You are still blindly missing the point though that it is not OK to film people sexually without their consent just because if you say you're a feminist, that's OK.
Consent.
Is it that far beyond you to realise this?

Just for the shits and giggles. Why do you do this to every thread you're on, Roses? Surely you can't actually enjoy it?

Datun asked: Would it be possible to have CCTV absolutely everywhere? With random inspections of said footage?

Roses approved: I agree this would be a good solution if it would be possible

Lang disapproved of Rose approving: You think that exploitative employment contracts requiring women in sex work to be filmed at all times is better than one-off whistleblowing investigations in cases of consistent and persistent regulatory failure?

Rose got her Datuns and her Langs muddled: it was put across as a genuine solution by yourself until I dared toagreewith you

Lang pointed out it was not she: I suggested fixed and permanent CCTV in work places as a good solution? I think not.

Datun concurred: Lang didn't say anything,roses. I asked a question. I do it a lot. It's how I find stuff out.

Roses contiinued to get her Datuns and Langs muddled: Seeing as it was YOU who posed it as a serious solution in order to perform a gotcha says a hell of a lot more about you than you'll ever realise.

Datun repeats an explanation of Roses muddle: Oh dear roses. Lang and I are different people. I asked a question. Not Lang.

Roses, well, uk ok hun?: The comment still stands to Lang then -Seeing as it was YOU who posed it as a serious solution in order to perform a gotcha says a hell of a lot more about you than you'll ever realise

I'm bored now. Rinse and repeat ad infinitum. Until we get to forty pages, obvs.

Hi Bernard

No I know that they want them closed down. And though I can see where they are coming from. I don't believe that shutting them down is the best route to getting rid of the exploitation or trafficking which the feminist groups are concerned with. I used to feel the same until I worked in one myself.

I think like many things, banning something isn't the way forward. It just drives demand underground and has negative effects on the women who work there. I think change is more effectively enacted from the inside.

I don't deny that the management and workers rights in strip clubs can be severely lacking. But I genuinely think a middle ground can be reached. But I think the women who work in these clubs must be included in this discussion.

I also think "strip clubs" is such a wide umbrella. Much like the trans one!!!!!

In an ideal world (I know shoot me now, but one can but dream) a club could exist where women perform and are paid for it without the horrible side serving of misogyny.

At its finest, stripping weaves athletics, performance, showmanship, sales, counseling and art together. It's genuinely unlike any other job in that respect.

FWIW, Datun, the CCTV question was a good one.

However, the regulatory environment for CCTV cameras at work are considerably more stringent than the (failing!) regulation of licences for strip clubs. Employers must report to ICO and are subject to GDPR.

There is about as much chance of Spearmint Rhino subjecting itself to this regime as there is of Roses ever giving a straight answer to a straight question.

Definitely not envy.

Oh blimey pigeons

I used to feel the same until I worked in one myself
you believed that strip clubs should be closed down and you still chose to work in one ? cor

a club could exists where women perform and are paid for it without the horrible side serving of misogyny
you think if misogyny didn't exist the demand would be there?

At its finest, stripping weaves athletics, performance, showmanship, sales, counseling and art together
sales? Counselling? women selling their bodies and then counselling the men with enough self awareness to feel a bit crap about it perchance?

I once had a debate with a man who said feminists are being sex offenders when they present anti-porn slide shows to highlight abuses in the porn industry because feminists don't have the consent of the women in porn to use their photos that way.

Dumbest rape apologism I ever saw, sad to see it again from Roses&Raindrops today.

How do you know they're men though?

Let's call it a wild guess. But I don't want you to work yourself into a lather over it.

But I think the women who work in these clubs must be included in this discussion.

They were included. They'd stopped working there, which meant they could speak out.

Great, too many women try and stop people's fun, it makes you ashamed to call yourself a feminist.
Don't go if you don't like it. Maybe spend your time making sure your husbands aren't in there, if it's that important.

I don't want to counsel men who're paying to gawp at my boobs. I don't care about their problems and I don't see why any other woman should be expected to either.

I remember littl saying to a poster, can't remember who now

'go, be with people you love and who love you. why are you doing this to yourself and everyone else?'

sometimes I think about that post

apropos of nothing

you believed that strip clubs should be closed down and you still chose to work in one ? cor

I'm assuming @CuntAmongstThePigeons held that viewpoint as she had no direct experience of working in one and then when she did, realised her prejudices and pre conceived ideas were not founded?
Had her viewpoint challenged when she saw what it was like for herself?

I don't want to counsel men who're paying to gawp at my boobs. I don't care about their problems and I don't see why any other woman should be expected to either.

Would you pass the audition, because you'd need to be offered a job to refuse.

Let's call it a wild guess. But I don't want you to work yourself into a lather over it.

In other words, not talking or thinking womanly enough but you don't want to just come out and admit it. I don't want you to work yourself into a lather about it... meaning move along, nothing to see here, don't worry your head about it....

Ooh, the feminists are ugly backup squad has arrived!

Don't want to counsel them either.

apropos of nothing

Yeah, right.

In an ideal world (I know shoot me now, but one can but dream) a club could exist where women perform and are paid for it without the horrible side serving of misogyny.

It's based on misogyny...

Don't go if you don't like it. Maybe spend your time making sure your husbands aren't in there, if it's that important.

Uh oh kittens Drabarni thinks you might not be purty enough to be a stripper

Apparently we need to worry about our husbands too.

(nods)

Bernard. I know, I know. I've always enjoyed a touch of seeing for myself - just to be sure. It really wasn't what I was expecting. I'm a deeply conflicted rad fem!!!! (And obviously a very bad one!!!)

With all due respect I really resent the idea a woman is selling her body. It's mine!!! I haven't sold it!!! It still belongs to me! And yes I know it's been said before and nobody ever believes us but yes the majority of the job is talking.

It's no coincidence that a huge number of women who work in these clubs or at least the happy student contingency are training or trained in some form of therapy. I've lost count of the number of women I've worked with who were studying some form of counseling.

With regards to the demand being there without the misogyny. YES!!!! That's exactly what I'm talking about. I think strip clubs should be based around the performance aspect. Less of the lap dancing and more of the athletics on the pole. I think if strip clubs moved towards that basis the demographic of punter would change.

I'm not saying it would happen overnight but I don't see why there cannot be an environment which includes incredible performance with some kind of (loosely therapy vibes)

In all honesty it really did take me working in one to appreciate the value they CAN offer to women. The comradeship between the women is for me unrivalled. The sheer breadth of women who work there was to me surprising and refreshing.

Ooh, the feminists are ugly backup squad has arrived! Who the fuck has said that?

Would you pass the audition, because you'd need to be offered a job to refuse
Were you referring to this? I took that to mean with the poster's stance, they wouldn't be getting an audition in the first place as why would they go to an audition/interview for a job they were so strongly against?
Why are you jumping to looks if this was it?
Interesting to see where heads are at.