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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Best wishes to Kate in court today

416 replies

happydappy2 · 18/09/2019 09:47

I really hope the outcome is fair to women and upholds free speech.

OP posts:
Somerville · 20/09/2019 09:50

Whoop!

LangCleg · 20/09/2019 09:51

Hooray!

Needmoresleep · 20/09/2019 10:00

Am I the only one to find the approach of some posters strange, even misogynistic.

A view that we are a bunch of women with plastic beach spades digging away whilst the
police/DPP and Stonewall ally law firms bring on huge machines.

Actually we are not all little women with few resources who should be silent. (Indeed quite a few of us will earn considerably more than the flying lawyer!) We dig together because we have common cause, and are spurred on by those whose digging is based on personal energy rather than resources.

I was able to hire a cheap digger for half a day. Found Louise, no problem, and was able to help out a bit there. However Google had problems finding Kate. Got there in the end, and it looks as if Google now has her on the map. (I had to test it a couple of times, via wifi and data.)

Zombie has it wrong. It's not either or, or who is nicer. I have no doubt that both Kate and Louise are strong characters. (Kate getting her Masters is good evidence...well done.) Others: Miranda, Harry etc, who have also been in the firing line, will be as well. It is about the tactic used, and the threat to (my) right to free speech.

We have wanted test cases. Miranda was great. Harry, if it goes the right way, should be really important. Work to examine the NSPCC, the Times unfair dismissal case, and so on. Even Yaniv in Canada. Timing for Kate and Louise may not be perfect in terms of fundraising, but the more often courts get to consider the issues the better.

Ideally we end up with a better idea of how current laws should be interpreted and guidelines written, rather than having our rights slowly eroded by the Stonewall regulatory capture. And we have the people who really have the resources to use the court system, Ie the police/DPP and the pro-bono lawyers, reconsidering what they are using those resources to achieve.

So thanks to Kate and to Louise and to women and their allies. It feels like Dunkirk. Big ships, little ships. Except with spades and diggers.

Birdsfoottrefoil · 20/09/2019 10:06

Needmoresleep I agree that this issue needs to be in court more often and the current cases are important. However the cost (and I don’t mean financial) to these individuals is huge. It is very much a David vs Goliath fight when even EHRC are looking for test cases to bring against us. Our £10s and £20s for Kate etc may just about allow them legal representation to defend themselves. But what we need is millions to take Stonewall, EHRC, etc to court on equal terms.

LangCleg · 20/09/2019 10:11

Ideally we end up with a better idea of how current laws should be interpreted and guidelines written, rather than having our rights slowly eroded by the Stonewall regulatory capture.

This.

BustedWench · 20/09/2019 10:27

The criminal case is important for everyone, I'm just in this purely by chance, it really could be anyone. But I am in this for freedom of speech (actual freedom of speech, not just being mean l) and our rights to hold our beliefs.

The civil claim I'm also fighting is for something different, but similar to those others who have since been caught in the storm. I have been fighting that as a litigant in person because no solicitors seem to want to help, but nearly there with that aspect!

I can't be as vocal as others, I've been floating on this since December 2018, and had 3 months prior to that of horror.

I am so thankful for those who have stood up and spoken out and have helped me sleep better at night and to be less of a shit mum through stress. I honestly am lost for words, thank you from me and my little family ❤️

Melroses · 20/09/2019 10:40

It goes up every time I look which is heartening!

Needmoresleep · 20/09/2019 10:45

Birds, I could not agree more.

A few years ago I had to carry out some litigation on behalf of my elderly mother, and it was awful. Really awful, and that is nowhere near what Kate will be going through.

My own view is that the current tactics may be close to cruel and unusual. We absolutely need to stand up to them. Unfortunately a large part of that "we" is people like Kate. The Miranda case was terrific, but again a huge burden on Miranda. Equally Linda/Venice.

I don't think we need millions. We need critical thinking and common sense. Each case we win, will be more several more cases not undertaken, and eventually guidance will shift. I am not a lawyer but assume that if our flying friend loses several cases there will be a better chance of them being labelled vexatious. If Harry wins, and following Miranda, police guidance will shift. Lawyers will then start telling their risk averse clients that they need to be as careful about potential erosion of women's rights and safety as they need to be about trans-rights. So don't just put the gangly kid who has suddenly announced they are a girl, in a girls changing room, and stuff gender neutral toilets if statistical evidence suggests they are not safe. Those Stonewall clients (police, big law firms etc) who had thought they were getting it oh so right, may then start questioning the source of and conflicting interests within that advice.

And as for Kate. What can we do? If she wants support I am sure several of us will make the trip to Stevenage. Or if a treat or two would help, I would welcome a DM with a link to an Amazon wish list from someone whose name/history I recognise. In the meantime let's get that hole dug.

Amalfimamma · 20/09/2019 11:03

needs

Just off the phone from Kate, she says support is more than welcome in February and that she needs nothing except support and shovels to help her fight this.

busted

You aren't a shit mum you're an amazing mum and an amazing woman who has been horribly not only by the witness but by people who profess to be fighting our same fight. I honestly don't know how you've done it. (well I do and I'm in awe of your strength and will power)
❤️

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 20/09/2019 11:13

If my mum had done half of this (although she was pretty feminist in her own way) I’d be so proud of her. I’d get a T-shirt with her face on it.

Carowiththegoodhair · 20/09/2019 11:14

Not hijacking or de-railing but please keep digging for Kate.

Somerville · 20/09/2019 11:23

Now I want a T-shirt with Kate’s face on it! Make it happen someone pleeeasse.

Birdsfoottrefoil · 20/09/2019 11:47

Needs we need the millions so we are not responding to vexatious litigants or organisations listening to stonewall’s dodgy advice. We need to proactively take EHRC, Stonewall, etc to court for sex (and other) discrimination and take it all the way through appeals if need be. We need the millions to raise awareness of how dodgy this all is across the whole population. We need to do research.

ThePurported · 20/09/2019 12:16

Kate has finished her masters even through all the pressure and stress she was and is subjected to over the past 12 months.

Flowers I am genuinely in awe!
I found Kate and will help again if needed.

zebrasdontwearbras · 20/09/2019 12:20

Congratulations Kate! Brew

Ineedacupofteadesperately · 20/09/2019 12:49

Well done Kate for getting your masters. You are an inspiration.

LangCleg · 20/09/2019 12:56

Congratulations, Kate! Have a Star and a Halo and a Glitterball.

joaniwalsh · 20/09/2019 13:19

The judge for the trial is DJ Dodds. I thought they said Dobbs but can't find one.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 20/09/2019 13:29

Not this one is it? 'NEWS - ‘Gratuitously rude’ judge stays in post after conduct probe'

Needmoresleep · 20/09/2019 13:35

I like this quote “For heaven’s sake, in this day and age especially, just because the lunatic says, ‘I want, I want’, you do not have to respond by spoon-feeding their every wish.” “

www.legalcheek.com/2015/11/hhj-dodds-dubbed-britains-rudest-judge-after-series-of-kevin-the-teenager-rants/

If it is him, it could be interesting.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 20/09/2019 13:36

I'm beginning to like the sound of this guy. Doesn't sound like he takes well to someone having a hissy fit.

BustedWench · 20/09/2019 14:17

Wrong DJ. Mine is a female district judge

Needmoresleep · 20/09/2019 14:22

Pity. He sounded gloriously unwoke.

Comefromaway · 20/09/2019 14:25

I only had a spoon to dig with but the hole is a tiny bit bigger now. (Took a bit of searching to find the hole in the first place though)

BustedWench · 20/09/2019 14:43

Yes, I liked the cut of his gib

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