Girls wearing skirts not allowed into school - could only be Brighton

[Kit19]

www.theargus.co.uk/news/17886600.lewes-priory-gender-neutral-uniform-protest/

Apparently “gender neutral” means trousers aka the male default. This is utterly insane. I mean I wouldn’t have minded the choice of trousers or skirts for either sex but only trousers?

I’m not “dissing” your fight. I’m not happy with your reluctance to see that the fight today is different.

And I’m bemused with your statement that something is practical for all because it is for you.

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Our school specifies approved suppliers only

There was a choice of about 3 pairs the other 2 were dead links.

As it was dd was not in an approved pair due to them not fitting. They were however from a local uniform shop so were seemingly ok. The next size up dont fit.

If I sent dd in a pair of new look school trousers she would likely be sent home.

The online uniform supplier starts st a size thats too big for dd.

The m&s ones were awful. You cant cycle to school if you cant bend your knees.

Between 2 kids I have been through asda next Tesco m&s uniform.shops, sainsbury. And every time.i find a pair that fits dd2 they discontinue.

I dont know what the hell is wrong with my kids but they basically have to live in leggings cos anything else.. well unless it's a hand me down over 6 years old then it's been bloody impossible to find a bloody thing that fits them

I wrote on another thread about skirts and trousers. I absolutely hated trousers as a child. I really hated them and felt very uncomfortable in them. I now wear jogging bottoms and leggings a lot but still find trousers uncomfortable. Skirts are just fine in winter. I actually find thick woolly tights warmer than trousers.

Each to their own surely? As others have said the gender neutral option would be to allow a choice of trousers or skirts for all pupils, male or female.

I don't understand people who think trousers are far more practical than skirts. They have some advantages but so do skirts, the latter are easier to fit if you have an unusual shape, they are often cooler, they can offer significantly more freedom of movement once you get used to them (especially if you are heavy) and it is a heck of a lot easier to pee in woods in a skirt compared to trousers.

Well, it seems now we're fighting for the right of women to choose what wear.

Why is it so hard to understand that a girl or a woman should have the choice to wear what she wants? Not something the school deems gender neutral, or what something someone else finds practical or sacred because they fought for it back in the Seventies?

It's not a non issue. It's taking away the most basic of choices.

^this

It's feminism 101 too - don't police women's clothing. And yet somehow contentious today on GET

See the media have misreported this completely. Picking and choosing from the real facts to suit the story they want to push i.e. this is a trans/gender issue.

The real facts are that the uniform changed for all pupils, male and female, over 2 years ago. Look carefully and you will see boys as well as girls protesting. See they are wearing shirts and blazers. That's the old uniform, as are skirts.

The truth is they were protesting about the older pupils still wanting to wear the old uniform. Read their placards. That wouldn't have made the news though, not without the fake gender angle and the shots of girls wearing short skirts

I can't wear trousers for more than a day or two in a row without getting horrendous thrush, and in summer I can't wear them at all without getting an infection. The vast majority of trousers also don't fit my body shape.

Trousers are not a practical option for all girls and women.

I’ve only really skimmed the story personally Rubix but I’m sure you’re right. All the actual quotes from the protesting children are not “I don’t want to wear trousers!” they’re “why the hell should we have to throw away perfectly functional uniforms and buy new ones for two terms of use when they promised us they wouldn’t have to? What about the environment??”

Surely if girls have the right to have a choice as to what uniform they wear then boys should have the same choice? Many of the problems that girls have with rousers boys have too - my son was very tall and thin. It was impossible to get him trousers that fitted because they don't seem to make different waist and leg lengths in boys trousers.

Our local school has a kilt as the skirt option for girls because it's difficult to roll up at the waistband but most parents hate them.because they are very expensive and apparently difficult to wash and iron because the pleats come out. How is that better than having to wear trousers?

I guess in the name of equality boys should be allowed to wear skirts but then how many posters on here would be ok with year 11 boys wearing skirts rolled up as short as the girls wear them? Would you all be saying then "why can't he show some thigh" or " so what if his pants are showing"? I somehow doubt it.

how many posters on here would be ok with year 11 boys wearing skirts rolled up as short as the girls wear them?

I'd not be inclined to let boys or girls roll them up. Though I don't know that I've ever heard of men or boys going for a short kilt, it would look pretty silly.

TBH though I don't think it matters much if the uniforms are somewhat different for boys and girls, as long as they are both fairly practical and inexpensive and wear well. Those kinds of issues can take up a lot of energy but in reality have little effect on equality issues.

Surely if girls have the right to have a choice as to what uniform they wear then boys should have the same choice? Many of the problems that girls have with trousers boys have too

Of course boys should have a choice. There is nothing stopping boys and parents of boys speaking up and organising their own.petitions and protests etc its bloody infuriating that every bloody time girls and women try and put their point across everyone's " oh but boys cant do this" " we dont get a choice either" as if it makes it ok to treat girls this way.

Sorry but it's really up to them to do it for themselves instead of constantly piggy backing the girls. We will be right there with you of course we would. But the selfishness does mY head in frankly

I too agitated to be allowed to wear trousers to work in the 70s/early 80s. I don’t recall any campaign to remove the choice to wear skirts

As it happens I love a well fitting pair of trousers but they can be hard to find - I assume because they were primarily designed for a male body (so not unisex). They don’t always fit women well on the waist or hips and can dig into the crotch. They are practical if you pee standing up, less so (cannot believe how often this has to be spelled out on here) if you have heavy or unpredictable periods, to which teenage girls and peri/menopausal women can be prone. Bad enough when you flood at 50, let alone at 14 in a co-ed school. A skirt allows you to wear multiple pads more discreetly and, if you do flood, helps prevent it spreading as quickly.

I can make allowances for boys and men who don’t get this stuff. I find it harder to do so for women posting on a feminist board.

This place s a picture of the ‘gender neutral’ uniform. Feel free to analyse! 😡🤮

I am not sure where the random ‘place’ came from in that sentence!

Well those trousers are definately going to be skinny style on any one whis not stick thin.

Cos girls trousers are never right either 🤔

Girls you can come to school but only of you look like the boys. None of this daring to have a female body nonsense . Got it?!

in the 1970s women like me fought for the right to wear trousers, against huge male opposition (and some females too)

Is that you parading your "I'm a better feminist than you card"

They are far more practical to wear than skirts at school and elsewhere

No they are not-as has been pointed out by several posters. Not for all women.

I can't wear trousers for more than a day or two in a row without getting horrendous thrush, and in summer I can't wear them at all without getting an infection

Me too. There will be teenage girls who experience this.

I also have a scar from my twin C section and an overhang. It becomes aggravated by tight clothes, especially trousers and can week/become infected even after 13 years.

Wearing skirts enables me not to bring on health issues that are present because of my sex. Because I am a woman.

I’m going to be patronising, Marguerite because when you post ‘bore off’ in the way that you did, you demonstrate yourself to be very immature, and your subsequent posts have been more of the same.

The concept of ‘choice’ for women and girls is something that will always be discussed - well, I hope so. Maybe things have changed.

Reading more comments here, the issue is that school uniform was designed for boys and then, like so many things, girls were shoehorned into it, hence so many schoolgirls wearing that most masculine item of clothing, the tie. Perhaps retailers should be lobbied into producing school trousers that are actually, first and foremost, designed for the female shape. But surely this argument about shape and fit is one that could be chucked at blazers, for example. How many fit girls particularly well?

I should say, I completely believe this decision is to placate the trans lobby, and I think it’s a stupid decision and to involve the police is ludicrous. But the wider discussion could be interesting.

Clearly the police weren't there to enforce the school uniform policy. They were there to prevent a breach of the peace due to 150 protestors, including adults congregating at the school.

My son is a teacher and during the recent hot weather he complained that male staff were expected to wear normal attire which is a suit, long sleeved shirt and tie, formal shoes, yet female staff could wear sleeveless dresses, sandals etc. He wasn't saying that women shouldn't have a choice, he was saying why can't men also have a choice. The issue being that there is no equivalent for men is there? There would have been uproar had the male staff all turned up wearing dresses and sandals, just as there would be if boys turned up wearing skirts to school (and where exactly makes school skirts to fit 14 -16 year old boys, some of whom are 6 feet tall?) It's silly to say "let the boys wear skirts" because we as a society aren't there yet and it would create such uproar that no work would get done.

Why is it not equality to say that there is 1 uniform option for boys and 1 uniform option for girls? Why is it right to say that girls can have a choice in uniform but boys can't? At my dc school girls could wear skirts or trousers, long sleeve or short sleeve shirt with a tie or short sleeve, revere collar blouses without a tie and blazers. Boys had to wear trousers, long sleeve shirt, tie and blazer. So when it's very hot girls can wear skirts, open neck short sleeve blouse and no tie while boys are covered up in trousers long sleeved buttoned to the neck shirt and tie. That's unjust. If we want to remove inequalities for women in society I don't see how it can be done on the back of refusing to remove inequalities for boys and men when they occur.

I’m going to be patronising,Margueritebecause when you post ‘bore off’ in the way that you did, you demonstrate yourself to be very immature, and your subsequent posts have been more of the same

I have been equally unimpressed by your posts. Your posts have been patronising and failed to take account of any other views- not just mine.and

sunshinesupermum's posts are the same . The famous "class analysis" in her case consists of nothing more than trousers are comfortable for her. Same for yours until your final grudging backtrack in your last post where you concede it is a bad decision because it is motivated by trans issues. It would be a bad decision without that.

There is no way my DD would ever agree to wear trousers to school. I totally believe she is in her rights to wear a skirt.
Why the bloody hell should we have to make girls who want to wear skirts confirm to a gender neutral uniform when they are very confident with their female gender.

I'm very happy for anyone else to wear what the hell they want...

I should say, I completely believe this decision is to placate the trans lobby, and I think it’s a stupid decision and to involve the police is ludicrous. But the wider discussion could be interesting.

This

“Why is it right to say that girls can have a choice in uniform but boys can't?“
It isn’t. The choice of trousers or a skirt should be open to both boys and girls.

marguerite,OK, lets debate the issue of choice for women and girls. My concern is an awful lot of what is called choice for women and girls gives them less equity in life than boys and men. Clothing is one of those things. And what I would be interested in is, if trousers are so bad for so many women and girls, why is it that so many women and girls wear jeans and leggings so much of the time? Like I’ve said several times, in DD’s non-uniform primary nearly all the girls wear leggings, shorts, jeans all the time. They can choose to wear skirts or dresses, there are no rules. Most choose not to. Why do you think that is?

(FYI, I don’t hate skirts, you’ve simply made that up to suit your picture of me. These days I never wear skirts but I’ve had times when I’ve never worn trousers. I’m looking beyond the personal to the bigger societal picture and the context within which we make our choices.)