Girls wearing skirts not allowed into school - could only be Brighton

[Kit19]

www.theargus.co.uk/news/17886600.lewes-priory-gender-neutral-uniform-protest/

Apparently “gender neutral” means trousers aka the male default. This is utterly insane. I mean I wouldn’t have minded the choice of trousers or skirts for either sex but only trousers?

Because there are many occasions where men have more choices or advantages than women do. And when that happens we quite rightly challenge it and attempt to change it. I just don't think that we can hope to be taken seriously when, on the occasions where women are benefiting from the imbalance, that we can honestly argue that it's fine for one sex to have more choices available than the other sex.

Huh? I don't want to equalise downwards, by taking valid choices away from men, if it's in an area we don't particularly want or need those choices. That's the logic of the dog in the manger. Making one groups lot worse completely unnecessarily for no benefit to the other group.

So, yes, I think we do need to treat men how we want to be treated and we cannot defend women when what they are doing is wrong.

To be clear, yes. But in this instance (unlike those other examples) treating men the same is accepting that there may be some things they might need more choice than women, and vv.
you're massively over complicating this issue.

So, yes, I think we do need to treat men how we want to be treated and we cannot defend women when what they are doing is wrong

Another massive derail. The examples given are not examples which would find support on FWR.

They are of course wholly irrelevant to the point being discussed here.

DecomposingComposers
The gift that keeps on giving
For the lurkers
It's always interesting to see the back tracking, and, sometimes totally incomprehensible posts.
Don't stop now, rotting musicians

This is still rumbling on!?

Decomposing is this whole thread some kind of modern performance art we haven’t heard about yet?

2B I just can't stop poking to see if Decomposing really honestly truly can't see any faults in what s/he's saying. Sorry for prolonging the agony.

(Also vaguely sorry for having been the one originally responsible for the use of "undercarriage" on this thread. If the world's going to insist on euphemisms then I'm going to choose one that makes me laugh at the sheer wtfery while also reminding me fondly of my grandma, but FWR doesn't insist on euphemisms and is thus not the place for it. Subtle correction noted and appreciated, whoever it was!)

I just can't stop poking to see if Decomposing really honestly truly can't see any faults in what s/he's saying. Sorry for prolonging the agony.

See, here we have the age old issue that we get on here. I don't say what you think a woman should say or in the way that you think a woman should say it and so let's call into question whether I am male or female.

But no, of course you aren't sexist or guilty of adhering to stereotypes huh?

Tyrotoxity Just wanted to say thank you for sharing your story and thank you for explaining so very patiently why certain clothing options may be less suitable for those of us who have been traumatised.

It is difficult sometimes to comprehend that something which I wouldn't waste even a fleeting moment on can loom so very large to others. Feeling safer in shorts is one such thing I haven't ever had to contemplate, so I am grateful that you have made me understand.

See, here we have the age old issue that we get on here. I don't say what you think a woman should say or in the way that you think a woman should say it and so let's call into question whether I am male or female
Decomposing
Tyrotoxicity gave you the courtesy of not assuming your Sex or gender. You'll now use this as a gotcha that you've been called a man. Ffs.

Your inference is not my implication.

Is the third person plural the only acceptable way to refer to an individual of unknown sex now? Because last I checked "he or she" and contractions thereof were acceptable.

No Tyro, have appreciated all your insights on the thread - they’ve made the agony all worthwhile! You are a very patient poster.

I’m also fourth-ing (I think) that Blue is equally scaling to everyone (in a good way)!

Your inference is not my implication.

Where have you referred to anyone else on this thread as he/she?

Have you used the third person contraction for anyone else?

Rotting Musicians

DC come on. If you don’t know someone’s sex, he/she is perfectly fine... you are seriously reaching. How do any of us know anyone else’s sex?

~ on an online forum without so much as an avi, that is.

...

There are vanishingly few corners of the internet in which we get the experience being the default sex. This is one of them.

Are you seriously suggesting that, for the sake of - what, equality? inclusion? - we have to give that up?

Every poster on this thread I've responded to, I've been operating on the default position of "assume female, pending further data." Decomposing is the only one of these posters whose words have alerted me to the possibility that they or Decomposing may possibly raise an objection to this assumption. Decomposing is therefore the one poster on this thread I have purposefully attempted to avoid implying belongs to a particular sex class.

Everywhere else we go we're assumed to be male, pending further data. EVERYWHERE.

Is it even worth me asking "How is it fair that men get to be the default everywhere and women get to be the default nowhere?"

I'm damned sure it's not worth me asking "If we have to pretend everyone on the internet is literally schroedinger's sexed body floating around in some ethereal space in which sexed bodies don't exist, pending further data, how the fuck is it fair to then attack women for spending time and effort trying to find ways to accommodate this requirement?"

I'm glad some of us got something out of this whole exchange, even if the main thing I got is that some people really don't like it when women aren't put permanently on the back foot.

DC come on. If you don’t know someone’s sex, he/she is perfectly fine... you are seriously reaching. How do any of us know anyone else’s sex?confused

Ok, if it's such a normal, natural occurrence on here please show me where else on this thread it's been used?

Every poster on this thread I've responded to, I've been operating on the default position of "assume female, pending further data." Decomposing is the only one of these posters whose words have alerted me to the possibility that they or Decomposing may possibly raise an objection to this assumption. Decomposing is therefore the one poster on this thread I have purposefully attempted to avoid implying belongs to a particular sex class.

So it was deliberate then? So despite me talking about my DH and my dc you felt sure that I might be a man and/or might object to being referred to as she? That, as you've just said, you defaulted to everyone else being she apart from me.

Yet other posters have jumped to your defence saying oh but we don't know who anyone is so it's natural to say he/she but you've just admitted that you deliberately only used it for me.

Yeah. Ok.

Tyro is that in response to my comment or DC’s? I didn’t mean to imply we should all go around saying “he/she” for everyone, just in case.

There are lots of posters I read as “female” (including you, for instance) and I too tend to “assume female, pending further data.”

Someone literally did call me a man once (on aibu), I was surprised but not bothered. Who cares? I know who I am. So to me getting bothered by he/she is... bizarre.

Have you used the third person contraction for anyone else?

Honestly can't remember.

No one else has given any subtle clues that I might be called to task over knowing they have a sex, so my brain didn't bother hanging onto a clear memory of every time I've referred to them and whether I've used a pronoun to do so. (Thanks, everyone else; I appreciate the effort you've saved me by being easy-going about the default-female round here.)

No one else has been giving me subtle cues to be on my best behaviour lest I leave myself open to accusations of the heinous crime of mis-sexing, which means no one else has triggered my brain into assuming a more formal mode of address which frowns on a singular "they" for an individual whose sex is known.

I know you have a sex, Decomposing. I'm giving you the courtesy of not assuming the fact you're advocating for anti-woman principles automatically assumes you're male. Fuck off with your demand that I use the non-sex-denoting third person singular of your choice.

Especially when you haven't even told me which pronoun I have to use to 'win'. YABmassivelyU.

So despite me talking about my DH and my dc you felt sure that I might be a man and/or might object to being referred to as she?

No. I thought you were a woman. I took steps not to make my opinion known because I had an inkling you'd leap on it as an excuse to derail with an accusation of sexism.

My brain didn't retain the knowledge that you have a husband and children either, sorry. My memory's shit, so shoot me.

2B nah, we're cool, don't worry.

So to me getting bothered by he/she is... bizarre.

Because on this board insinuating a poster is male is the way to dismiss whatever they say. Literally a " no woman would think like you, therefore you're a man".

Fuck off with your demand that I use the non-sex-denoting third person singular of your choice.

Where, anywhere have I demanded that you use a non- sex-denoting third person singular of my choice? I'll tell you the answer - nowhere is where.

Instead you've defaulted to a sexist must be male because of their views attitude.

You've just ranted on about how grateful you are to not have to have the default "man" assumption but you are happy to dish out that attitude on here?

You've not asked any other poster to give you their preferred pronouns. You've said yourself that you've just assumed female for every other poster yet I'm Wong because I haven't specified to you what you should use with me? Utter bullshit.

You've not expressed preference either in which pronoun you want to be used so shall I assume that s/he is the correct way to address you?

DC you are out of line.

You are trying to control how others perceive you, and making a huge deal out of what should be a minor issue (if that).

You seem very angry at the possibility that someone might perceive you as male. But how is anyone to know either way? Men can have husbands and kids these days.

People base their perception on the words you use and the way you engage. If you want people to use a particular pronoun for you, but have never said so, you can’t get mad at he/she

Also - I use she/her in referring to many posters because I read them as female. If for whatever reason I don’t read a poster that way (which is emphatically not a criticism of them - just my own perception based on lots of things), I’d avoid using sexed language.

People base their perception on the words you use and the way you engage.

So is there a male or female way of engaging then? That's just applying stereotypes, surely and is quite sexist.

It's just a tool used to try and dismiss what someone says. Just as the term sweetie was used.