Girls wearing skirts not allowed into school - could only be Brighton

[Kit19]

www.theargus.co.uk/news/17886600.lewes-priory-gender-neutral-uniform-protest/

Apparently “gender neutral” means trousers aka the male default. This is utterly insane. I mean I wouldn’t have minded the choice of trousers or skirts for either sex but only trousers?

The men in my office were all wearing shorts when it was hot over the summer.

Men in various countries around the world wear skirt or dress type clothing.

This is purely social.

Yes but I don’t see why having to wear undies make skirts any less practical than shorts / trousers.

It’s the same shorts and the same skirt.

Interesting cross post.

The lengths that people go to, to rationalise things that are just social norms, never ceases to amaze, tbh.

The men in my office were all wearing shorts when it was hot over the summer.

Which is great if your work place or school allows it. They should be allowed everywhere. Where I work I can choose between a skirt or trousers. Men can only wear trousers. It isn't right.

Yes but I don’t see why having to wear undies make skirts any less practical than shorts / trousers.

I don't understand your point. No one can see up your trousers can they? Not wearing suitable underwear doesn't matter if you are wearing trousers. It does if you wear a skirt.

Have you asked them if you can wear a skirt?

Do women have to wear skirts?

What industry are you in?

The lengths that people go to, to rationalise things that are just social norms, never ceases to amaze, tbh.

Ok. So a skirt is a social norm isn't it? Why not do away with it? Why have skirts at all? Why not only trousers? Presumably skirts happened because cave men wrapped animal skins around themselves but since we now have tailoring and can sew we don't need just a piece of cloth wrapped around us do we. We've moved on. So why are we clinging to skirts?

Decomposing why don’t you start a petition that boys can wear shorts? I’d sign it.

What do they do at lunch - play football etc in long trousers? But wouldn’t they always be getting grass stains / blood stains?

Or (now this might be a positive) do they not play sport at lunch and girls have more space?

But I’m conscious that a thread about girls has turned into WATB, so I’ll try and rein in my raging curiosity.

Have you asked them if you can wear a skirt?

I've just said that women have the option of skirts or trousers, so yes I can wear a skirt if I want to. I don't because I can't stand them.

What do they do at lunch - play football etc in long trousers? But wouldn’t they always be getting grass stains / blood stains?

Not at secondary school no. All much too cool to play football. I guess younger boys play it and yes constant grass stains and torn knees is a problem with long trousers.

I thought the undies issue was - boys (unlike girls) having dangly bits, which benefit from the support of undies (like boobs and bras, as you said).

And since trousers/shorts do not provide support to dangly bits, I didn’t see why undies would come into it at all.

Yes I can remember skirts blowing up causing the occasional mortifying flash, is it very windy where you are? I guess if you were diligent you could sew those tiny weights into their skirt hems, or your kids (of either sex) could go with trousers/shorts.

But it's not to do with support fro dangly bits. It's to do with those dangly bits being exposed whilst wearing a skirt if they don't stay contained within the underpants. I don't have dangly bits but my DH has thrown away pants before because they don't keep things where they should be, which is not a problem because he wears trousers but would be a problem if he was wearing a skirt.

Is it windy here? Yes, quite often but this is more about school kids insisting on wearing fairly short skirts which carry a risk of exposure when you bend over. Not great if a girl shows her knickers but more than a bit embarrassing of a boy flashes his testicles when he leans over or sits cross legged in drama for example.

But none of you think it would be a problem so there we are.

Hmm. I feel like I’m being annoying now. But the only time I’ve seen a random testicle was on a young classmate who was wearing shorts.

It was just peeking out the side as he sat on the ground - must have forgotten to put undies on (its happened to us all!).

However - I spent 12 years at school with boys in shorts and that split second [I looked away immediately] was the only time. The flashing-risk would be higher with skirts.

But if you campaign for shorts I’m sure it will be supported!

I've been puzzling over this one.

I'd prefer no skirts at all. As a primary teacher I'm constantly reminded that skirts and dresses and bloody coulotte play suits aren't as practical or allow their wearer to be as active as the trouser wearer. Had a girl recently who wasn't drinking and going to the loo as getting out of the playsuit was so hard.

If you say that the trousers are the male default I'd disagree; they're more practical and to say that they're the male default is to therefore say I'm dressing male when I wear trousers. I not. I'm wearing trousers.

To be truly gender neutral you would either be anyone can wear skirts and trousers or it's all wearing one option.

As a young girl I would have at time I would have liked to have been able to have the option to wear skirts, but actually my school went a bit rad and abolished uniforms all together. Interestingly, bar a phase of miniskirts and thick black tights, the girls all wore trousers, mainly jeans and I certainly often wore boys Levi's. But that was the 90's.

I can see that the if it's the up skirting issue, the girls are being victim blamed. And it's not fair to say they and their clothes are then issue. But I don't think that's what the message is tbh. I think it's that in school trousers or shorts as a uniform is just more practical.

It's tricky personally as the daughter of a close friend campaigned successfully to be allowed to wear shorts at school (had to be dresses) and eschews dresses and skirts completely. And I really admire her.

But if the teachers are wearing skirts too then that's a total no no. Hypocrites!

Has anyone suggested a choice of skirt, trousers or shorts for everyone?

The police are now being used to enforce dress codes on girls. What a time to be alive!

This.

And working in an sen school, we often have girls wearing skirts and then a pair of shorts beneath them because the individual child needs a lot of sensory sessions and spends a lot of time rolling on balls etc.

But then of course there's the issue with girls clothes that girls shorts are often stupidly smaller, tighter, shorter etc...

Gah it just goes round in circles!

Girl wants to wear trousers to school - school umms and ahhhhs then says ‘you knew the uniform before you got here. Detention/exclusion young lady’ (pat on head).

Girls don’t want to be forced to wear clothing - girls locked out of premises and police are called.

Boy want to wear skirt to school, boy cries ‘bigots’ and ‘transphobia’, threatens lawyers - school changes policy, kids/teachers/parents are ‘re-educated’ and everyone tippy toes around in case they upset the person in the skirt.

Strange times indeed.

So how can you argue that it's fine for girls to have 3 choices and boys only 2?

It is you alone who is ruling out the third choice ( skirts) for boys.
I say both sexes should have three choices.

When trousers first became a possibility for women, not every woman took up that option straight away.

I'm simply saying that if boys are allowed to wear skirts then I presume you mean the same rules will apply to their skirts as apply to girls skirts?

Obviously...but as your example indicates individual pupils will seek to find ways to assert their individuality or subvert uniform rules.That is then up to the school to decide how far they want to go to enforce the rule.

Why are people arguing that the same number of choices = equality? Its a strawman, its a fake version of equality.

What style skirts are the boys wearing? The same style that girls wear or a different style?

Well , so far it is not the practice for boys to wear skirts at school - but in public I've seen quite a few variants of length and style.

Has anyone suggested a choice of skirt, trousers or shorts for everyone?

Who would have thought that a thread about school skirts would turn in a long list of excuses as to why men cannot be expected to dress themselves properly , keep their body parts from being exposed to the world, and how no matter what happens to women and girls men are worse off.

As I said before perhaps if they hadnt been so focused on keeping tabs on what women are pushing to be able to do, it wouldnt have got to 2019 where grown men who have no qualms about strangling a woman to death during sex or battering the hell out of each other on a Friday night, are suddenly afraid of what women might say if they wore a skirt.

I've never heard anything so ridiculous tbh. The standards if behaviour expected are pathetically low. No wonder men are the way they are.

Boy want to wear skirt to school, boy cries ‘bigots’ and ‘transphobia’, threatens lawyers - school changes policy, kids/teachers/parents are ‘re-educated’ and everyone tippy toes around in case they upset the person in the skirt.

Boy then gets applauded by various female style icons and becomes a women's officer in the Labour Party, claiming to be a lesbian...