Girls wearing skirts not allowed into school - could only be Brighton

[Kit19]

www.theargus.co.uk/news/17886600.lewes-priory-gender-neutral-uniform-protest/

Apparently “gender neutral” means trousers aka the male default. This is utterly insane. I mean I wouldn’t have minded the choice of trousers or skirts for either sex but only trousers?

You had stated I think at least twice that men are restricted in what they wear because of social opprobrium and that social opprobrium would come from women. Later on you started going on about shorts.

You are right you did not specifically refer to shorts but your take generally was that social opprobrium from women would prevent men having greater freedom, so no I am not going to apologise given the general tenor of your points and the fact you have twisted so much of what I said.

You had stated I think at least twice that men are restricted in what they wear because of social opprobrium and that social opprobrium would come from women. Later on you started going on about shorts.

I have suggested shorts from the start, what are you talking about?

You are right you did not specifically refer to shorts but your take generally was that social opprobrium from women would prevent men having greater freedom, so no I am not going to apologise given the general tenor of your points and the fact you have twisted so much of what I said.

I've specifically mentioned shorts many, many times. I have no idea what you are talking about. My suggestion all along is that men and boys should be allowed to wear shorts. I haven't mentioned women's opinions on this at all. Not once. You have misread entirely what I have said.

Not once have I said that women will argue against men wearing shorts, not once.

Just to add, you do realise that my posts are clearly visible so that everyone reading this thread can see that you are either very confused or are just making things up?

Just to add, you do realise that my posts are clearly visible so that everyone reading this thread can see that you are either very confused or are just making things up?

For a minute I thought I'd wandered into a trans thread lol, zactly the same ha

Your posts are clearly visible.

You might want to consider re-reading them and the responses you got to them from posters , not just from me.

MargueritaBlue

I don't need to because I know that I haven't said that men will be stopped from wearing shorts by women.

You have muddled it up and then posted a load of cobblers about what you have imagined that I said.

I'm very confused

Am I allowed to wear shorts in Brighton or not?

Wear what you like.

Though if wearing a dress it needs to be cotton, loose, not clingy or revealing and from Cos

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD

“Kilts are the answer. Culottes and kilts.”

Terribly glad you brought this up, I hadn’t the nerve. Perfectly serious question, do schools in Scotland, Cornwall, etc. (Sorry, I don’t know enough about Celtic nations to confidently name any others) allow the boys to wear kilts?
Runs away very fast before the Scottish and Cornish contingents scream “kilts are not skirts”.

Terribly glad you brought this up, I hadn’t the nerve. Perfectly serious question, do schools in Scotland, Cornwall, etc. (Sorry, I don’t know enough about Celtic nations to confidently name any others) allow the boys to wear kilts?

Kilts aren't really worn as normal daywear in Scotland save for rugby matches and weddings or an alternative to black tie (I'm not keen on the latter)

In schools kilts are often the girls' uniform option in private schools. The girls at my son's school wear kilts which are much nicer than the grey trousers the boys wear.

Well, when it comes to clothing men do have less choice and are more restricted than women so in this instance it is men who need to be treated more fairly.

Pandering to oppressive norms does nobody any good.

What you are saying is that because men's clothing choices are culturally restricted, women's should be also. That is just silly.

What you are saying is that because men's clothing choices are culturally restricted, women's should be also. That is just silly.

Not at all. Keep girls school uniform options exactly as they are now. Increase boys options.

What is silly about that?

That is equal and fair. Despite what you are all saying trousers are unisex, skirts aren't so it isnt a real choice to say boys can wear trousers or a skirt

Trousers are now considered uni-sex because women fought for the right to wear them. Taking away women's rights to wear skirts does not solve the problem.

Men fighting for the right to wear skirts would. However, being seen as 'girly' is still more prohibitive for men, than wearing trousers is for women. That is because anything associated with feminine is still seen as being inferior and unworthy for men. so men are unlikely to fight for that right in the way that women did.

That was my explanation as to why trousers aren't perfectly suitable for all boys in the same way that they aren't suitable for all girls but no one appears to care about that, not the expense or trouble that parents of boys have to go to to get trousers that fit either

I have two boys, and when they were of school age it was never an issue. I never had to have trousers tailored to fit them.

But that is because women wanted to wear trousers, though not sure why when they are masculine, uncomfortable, cause thrush etc etc.

Women wanted the right to wear trousers because what skirts represented, at that time, was strictly segregated sex roles. And, furthermore, masculine roles were more valued and offered more freedom.

Often skirts went with high heels -which are restrictive and inhibitive to physical freedom and movement. Women in skirts were just seen as decorative dolly birds.

That need no longer be the case, unless one plays up to the image. Skirts are just a garment.

You said not clingy or revealing? Why? Who are you to police the style of dress that a man wears?

Clingy or 'revealing' clothing emphasises the sexed body. Looser fitting garments do not.

If men can wear dresses and skirts then they obviously should be allowed to wear whatever women can wear

it is only masculine codes which prevent them from doing so,

Not at all. Keep girls school uniform options exactly as they are now. Increase boys options.What is silly about that?

O.K!

So, what you are saying that is that girls should be free to choose either trousers or skirts, and that boys should also be free to choose trousers or skirts; or maybe shorts - as a compromise measure between what is realistic and what is ideal?

I have two boys, and when they were of school age it was never an issue. I never had to have trousers tailored to fit them.

Which is great. I've never had a problem getting trousers to fit me as a woman. But as many posters pointed out just because it isn't a problem for you doesn't mean it isn't a problem for others.

My son was very tall but very slim so buying long enough trousers meant they were way to big around the waist. Other boys we knew who were larger in the waist had to buy larger trousers which were far too long. This is when they were buying boys trousers that come in ages rather than mens trousers that have a separate waist and length.

Clingy or 'revealing' clothing emphasises the sexed body. Looser fitting garments do not

And? Is that not up to the wearer of said clingy or revealing garment to decide?

it is only masculine codes which prevent them from doing so,

That wasn't the discussion. The discussion was would women and girls be uncomfortable around boys and men wearing short skirts. A poster said that there's no problem with them wearing longer length skirts, which shouldn't be the case should it? If women and girls can wear short skirts then men and boys should be able to wear the same.

So, what you are saying that is that girls should be free to choose either trousers or skirts, and that boys should also be free to choose trousers or skirts; or maybe shorts - as a compromise measure between what is realistic and what is ideal?

I think girls should have the choice of skirts or trousers and boys should have the choice of shorts or trousers as a compromise between what is realistic and what is ideal.

I think girls should have the choice of skirts or trousers and boys should have the choice of shorts or trousers as a compromise between what is realistic and what is ideal

Why not give both girls and boys the choice between trousers, skirts and shorts? The odd brave male soul may well take the offer up - and be liberated by it. And trans children would have all options available to them.

And? Is that not up to the wearer of said clingy or revealing garment to decide?

Some of the issue seems to be around the sexualised body revealing practice of girls hitching their skirts up to their bum.

Why not give both girls and boys the choice between trousers, skirts and shorts? The odd brave male soul may well take the offer up - and be liberated by it. And trans children would have all options available to them

Because that would mean that as boys wont wear the skirts that girls would effectively have a choice of 3 and boys only a choice of 2. And that's not equal.

So rather than boys and men sort their shit out we will blame.women for complaining about boys in skirts and then as boys cant wear shorts in school either we will justify taking the choice away from girls cos least its equal that way

There is another option. Invent an alternative item of clothing altogether that buys can wear so it's even but hey that's too much hard work for boys and men too and women miss the point they need keeping in their place

Some of the issue seems to be around the sexualised body revealing practice of girls hitching their skirts up to their bum.

Indeed. And what are the replies on here when that is mentioned? How dare men or boys sexualise a girls body, how dare they police what girls wear, if male teachers have a problem with girls wearing short skirts, tight trousers, revealing clothes then it is the men who have a problem not the girls, the clothes or their bodies.

So, if you say that boys should wear skirts the same principles will hold true, correct?

So girls and female teachers will have to accept seeing boys and men showing thighs and underwear when they bend over.
Except, they won't will they? The boys and men will be accused of indecent exposure or getting some thrill from shocking classmates or whatever. So, it's not practical really is it to glibly say "boys should wear skirts"

Because that would mean that as boys wont wear the skirts that girls would effectively have a choice of 3 and boys only a choice of 2. And that's not equal

Some boys might. I've seen a number of boys/men in skirts recently, and it just takes one or two brave souls to break through the taboo.

Invent an alternative item of clothing altogether that buys can wear so it's even

Such as? Why not just give boys the option of shorts, a garment that already exists? Then the number of uniform options is the same for each sex. Girls haven't had anything taken away.