Girls wearing skirts not allowed into school - could only be Brighton

[Kit19]

www.theargus.co.uk/news/17886600.lewes-priory-gender-neutral-uniform-protest/

Apparently “gender neutral” means trousers aka the male default. This is utterly insane. I mean I wouldn’t have minded the choice of trousers or skirts for either sex but only trousers?

Kilts are the answer. Culottes and kilts.

Culottes are never the answer

Unless the question is something like what item of clothing is a mix of A line skirt and short trousers

Then maybe

So what are these oppressed men and boys for whom you have so much concern actually asking for?

To wear something better suited to the summer than long trousers, shirt, tie and formal shoes?

As others have said then they need to actively campaigning for it- same as women did re wearing trousers.

Your assertion that they would be prevented from doing so by women complaining holds no water. Women achieved this despite strenuous opposition and without the benefit of equality and discrimination legislation which men now could rely on.

If a man turned up to work in for example one of the smart but loosely styled knee length/ mid calf length cotton or linen dresses which Cos specialise in (ie cool, comfortable but not clingy or revealing and everything neatly covered up) it would be very difficult for an employer to object.

“o wear something better suited to the summer than long trousers, shirt, tie and formal shoes?“

Gods idea. Shorts. Remind me why you don’r want girls to be able to wear them too?

I don't think it really matters if boys have two choices while girls have three, or if it is the other way around. At a certain point, sure, if there is a huge difference in expectation it's really more burdensome for one group.

But putting so much emphasis on having just the same number of choices isn't that important. However, I do think that feminists, among others, have tended to support that kind of argument about needing the same number of choices, even if not so much in this particular discussion, so hearing it now from the other direction is an interesting twist.

I think if you made skirts, shorts, and trousers available to all, everyone could shut up, but in practice you'd see girls wear all three worn by girls and only trousers and shorts by the boys, and it would make zero difference to their lives.

Wearing trousers is not "male default". I'm 45 and have worn a skirt a handful of times since leaving school, and have felt uncomfortable each time. I suppose I should be thankful to be in the forties, or I'd have people telling me I must be a transgender male...

Your assertion that they would be prevented from doing so by women complaining holds no water.

Lucky that I haven't asserted that then isn't it?

Please show me where I've said that men have been prevented from campaigning or even wearing shorts, by women? Because I simply haven't.

So you are just making stuff up.

Gods idea. Shorts. Remind me why you don’r want girls to be able to wear them too?

Because, why? Apparently trousers and shorts are masculine, don't fit girls, cause thrush. So why would you want girls to wear them?

Also, why do girls need an additional choice? They already have skirts, dresses and trousers so why can't this option be just to address the lack of choice that boys have?

If a man turned up to work in for example one of the smart but loosely styled knee length/ mid calf length cotton or linen dresses which Cos specialise in (ie cool, comfortable but not clingy or revealing and everything neatly covered up) it would be very difficult for an employer to object

So women are only permitted to wear one style of dress then - cool, loose cotton, from Cos, not clingy or revealing? Really?

Your assertion that they would be prevented from doing so by women complaining holds no water

Lucky that I haven't asserted that then isn't it?

Can I remind you what you posted Today
15:28DecomposingComposers

So what you're saying is that if men and boys are allowed to wear skirts that the only people who will have a problem with it will be men and boys, right?

No women or girls will complain? Ok

So women are only permitted to wear one style of dress then - cool, loose cotton, from Cos, not clingy or revealing? Really?

Nope - where did I say that? I gave an example of the type of smart clothing to which no employer could find a reasonable objection to in the workplace. It might be a man in a dress but it ticks all the boxes for suitable office or school wear.

“why can't this option be just to address the lack of choice that boys have?”
Because offering all choices to both sexes does not take anything away from boys and not to do so would be just petty.

Please show me where I've said that men have been prevented from campaigning or even wearing shorts, by women? Because I simply haven't

You said men would be prevented (not that they had been prevented)because women would object. I replied that it would not be women complaining which would stop it.

Can't you remember what you are posting?

why do girls need an additional choice? They already have skirts, dresses and trousers so why can't this option be just to address the lack of choice that boys have?

This makes no sense whatsoever.

MargueritaBlue

And? You quoted me saying that boys should be allowed to wear something better suited to summer - which I did say shorts.

You then said that they should campaign for this and that I had asserted that woman and girls were stopping them.

Now as evidence.ofbthat apparent assertion you quote me as remarking on skirts.

Show me where I said that girls and women were stopping boys wearing shorts - which is what you insinuated.

You said men would be prevented (not that they had been prevented)because women would object. I replied that it would not be women complaining which would stop it.

No I haven't. And don't be sarcastic by asking if I can remember what I've posted.

It's you that is getting confused, not me.

Nope - where did I say that? I gave an example of the type of smart clothing to which no employer could find a reasonable objection to in the workplace. It might be a man in a dress but it ticks all the boxes for suitable office or school wear.

You gave an example of the type of dress that men could wear. Why? If men are to wear dresses why not every style of dress that is available to women?

You said not clingy or revealing? Why? Who are you to police the style of dress that a man wears?

Because offering all choices to both sexes does not take anything away from boys and not to do so would be just petty.

It is only an illusion of choice though, to offer skirts and dresses to men and boys. It is not realistic, not least because they don't exist. A standard school skirt on a 6 foot boy will be a belt.

You said not clingy or revealing? Why? Who are you to police the style of dress that a man wears?

Her post was very very clear

They always are to be fair

You gave an example of the type of dress that men could wear. Why? If men are to wear dresses why not every style of dress that is available to women?

You said not clingy or revealing? Why? Who are you to police the style of dress that a man wears

When you started posting you were going on about workplace situations. You gave a specific example of a teacher.

Women are not free to wear any and every type of dress in workplace situations. Men would need to adopt the same general suitability rules as women.

MargueritaBlue

Have you seen what teachers wear? Or drs for that matter? I was seen by a woman Dr wearing shorts not much longer than hot pants, granted with thick tights but certainly not a "loose fitting, not clingy, not revealing cotton dress from Cos".

If men can wear dresses and skirts then they obviously should be allowed to wear whatever women can wear.

If you do not believe in gendered clothing, then the school should be able to choose a (comfortable) uniform for both sexes. Trousers seems fine to me.

Have you seen what teachers wear? Or drs for that matter? I was seen by a woman Dr wearing shorts not much longer than hot pants, granted with thick tights but certainly not a "loose fitting, not clingy, not revealing cotton dress from Cos"
Bully for you- you found one extreme example. Any woman turning up dressed like that in any office I've ever worked in would be told it was not appropriate wear.

If men can wear dresses and skirts then they obviously should be allowed to wear whatever women can wear

I didn't say they should not. I said they would have to abide by the same general rules of what is right to wear where and when that women do.

I didn't say they should not. I said they would have to abide by the same general rules of what is right to wear where and when that women do.

Which, from my experience, is very relaxed.

And no apology yet for getting my posts entirely arse about face and accusing me of saying things I didn't say?

Why does everything that's "gender neutral" seems to be eroding choices for women?! Gender neutral seems very anti-female imo.

It's disturbs me that girls have to adjust their clothing to make others (a very small minority) feel better. It's a very worrying message to send.

Why can't everyone just have a choice? Trousers or a skirt? Banning skirts is just ridiculous and sexist.