Should I raise this with School?

[Paraballa]

My Dd is year 6, so kids aged 10/11. They have a trip to the local hospital coming up where they will learn about first aid and practice the recovery position, using a defibrillator, etc.

School has explicitly said that skirts are not to be worn as they're unsuitable for role play on the floor.

I am about this as I've worn skirts for similar courses and not had a practical issue, plus I feel like they're being rather pearl-clutchy about the possibility of a quick flash of knickers from little girls in front of their peers.

I'm tempted to email school about it as they say if skirts are worn the girls can't take part.

DD currently only has skirts. I can buy School trousers, she wants some anyway, but I'm not happy at the general message being sent out.

I wasn't sure if this was the right forum but it feels like a feminist issue to me.

And it is direct discrimination. Saying 'own clothes and everyone must wear trousers' wouldn't be, but saying 'boys can wear what they wear to school but girls can't' is a really clear example.

But it doesn't discriminate against girls who wear trousers to school, even if only occasionally. The only girls really affected are those who never wear trousers to school and that's why I suggested OP speak to school to find out what alternative is acceptable. It would be a rare school who insisted that only uniform trousers would be acceptable, even if that required them to be purchased specifically for this. I'm quite sure PE joggers would be acceptable in this instance.

As an A&E sister for years I performed CPR on many, many occasions and as far as I’m aware, managed to do it without ever flashing my knickers. 🙄

Off topic but TIL that nurses in the UK wear dresses as uniform? I don’t think I’ve seen a skirt in a medical setting in my life.

Yes, some nurses do wear dresses. Just because you’ve never seen it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

I agree with you OP but I understand the reasons.
I’d write

‘Dear school, as DD is attending an active session when she does first aid I thinks it’s best that she wear her PE kit as it’s the most suitable for activity. I assume this is satisfactory for her and any other child?’

That is a good response.

I think it is odd that people don't understand that girls can simultaneously have the right to privacy while getting changed and the right to do a cartwheel while wearing their school uniform. Possibly different girls, possibly even the same girl at different times. That really doesn't feel controversial to me?

From Firstaidforlife.com

What do I need to wear for the first aid courses?
We recommend you wear comfortable clothing (not skirts or dresses) to participate in the essential practical elements of our training. You will also be asked to remove your shoes, so you might want to wear your best socks!

I agree she dressed. I think here though the trouble is that someone will be manhandling the girls into a recovery position. They may not have autonomy so it's not quite the same as choosing to do a cartwheel.

Yes I see that longest

But some people are saying 'Well you can't have it both ways - YOU said you wanted privacy for girls and now you are saying it's ok for them to "flash" their pants'. Which is really not on at all IMO.

And I think your point about autonomy is an excellent one

ShesDressedInBlackAgain

I'm not saying you can't have it both ways. I'm just saying that if girls want privacy when changing for PE then it's reasonable to assume that they also won't want to expose their underwear to classmates in this scenario either. So why wouldn't the op want to follow reasonable advice from the school to make sure that her dd won't be embarrassed when participating?

I guess if her dd won't care when her skirt ends up around her waist then it's up to her dd. I just can't really see this being the case though.

Just popping back to say there's no reason why her skirt would end up round her waist. It's knee length and pleated. You seem to be envisaging an extreme.

So many times on this board I see posters stating that young girls approaching puberty need privacy from male classmates when changing for PE etc yet now all of a sudden there's no.problem with the girls showing their underwear?

Well this is what was said. And my point is that no - of course it is perfectly acceptable for a prepubescent child to show their underwear from time to time. And if your school uniform has skirts then you need to suck that up. This 'modesty shorts' thing needs to be challenged because - as we all know - it never fucking stops there when people are policing vulvas.

And in this situation the school should be saying own clothes - leggings or jogging bottoms please.

What have you decided OP?

Just popping back to say there's no reason why her skirt would end up round her waist.

Have you seen the procedure for putting people into the recovery position? I think there's a fair chance that the skirt while ride up. Certainly her underwear will be exposed when her leg is drawn up. Have you asked her if it will bother her?

And in this situation the school should be saying own clothes - leggings or jogging bottoms please.

Yes they should but it seems that the ops fundamental issue is that her dd should be allowed to wear a skirt just because.

I feel like they're being rather pearl-clutchy about the possibility of a quick flash of knickers from little girls in front of their peers

...says the OP.

a) no, the people organising the training are making sure that both their trainers and the participants are protected from any complaints/discomfort, and the school is passing on their instructions.

b) 10 and 11 year olds are potentially of menstrual age. They're not 'little girls'.

it seems that the ops fundamental issue is that her dd should be allowed to wear a skirt just because.

But 'Just because' is 'because she doesn't own school trousers and op isn't able/would prefer not to buy her some for this one day isn't it?

And as someone staring down the barrel of Clark's 'Back to School!' pricing structure I have sympathy with that!

ASDA £3 girls trousers 10-11

M& S £11:00

Plenty

I know things are very tight for some people, but I’m sure you can manage £3 this month instead if next month.

The trainers shouldn’t be spending half the time trying not to look at exposed gussets (& more) or trainers/peers having to be careful how to lift knees, where to put their hands trying to get others into the recovery position.

It’s noting like a quick cartwheel

It’s nit sexist and mist furs aud courses DI suggest comfortable trousers are worn st Jihns certainly does.

Having done a (rather rigorous and vigorous) first aid course I would say don’t wear a skirt or you could feel constantly worried about it riding up etc as you’re jumping up and down, cpr, moving people around/ being moved into position by others.

The last thing you want is to feel self conscious about that as there is enough to think about.
Also do you ever see paramedics in skirts?

10 and 11 year olds are potentially of menstrual age. They're not 'little girls .
There really are some creepy posts on this thread. Of course women and girls can wear skirts when administering first aid. Otherwise nurses and women doctors would not be able to manage in the work place. It's a thoughtless instruction from someone with a horror of seeing bare flesh on a woman OP. Implying that there is something wrong with the female form.

iPhone is going to be ‘free to a good home’ soon. - sorry it’s a barely readable post 😖

There really are some creepy posts on this thread. Of course women and girls can wear skirts when administering first aid. Otherwise nurses and women doctors would not be able to manage in the work place. It's a thoughtless instruction from someone with a horror of seeing bare flesh on a woman OP. Implying that there is something wrong with the female form

For the love of God we are talking about children, not adults! 10/11 year old girls are not as careful or aware as grown women are when moving around in a skirt. It’s normal for them to end up showing their knickers in situations a woman would naturally be more aware not to.

Doctors and nurses mainly deal with patients in beds m, not on the floor ABD they’re not then lying in the floor ‘being the patient’

It has nothing to do with ‘the horror of seeing bare flesh’ Or there being anything wrong with the female form

It’s simply to make it physically more comfortable for the children involved and less risk of the trainers or other children being accused of behaving inappropriately

It’s not a difficult concept to grasp. FFS

And what is wrong with a child's knickers being momentarily seen from under their knee length skirt? Or are you suggesting that the adults involved are not able to control themselves if they see a a flash of child's knickers when they bend over? Because if that's the case then the adults need to be removed from the proximity of all children pdq!

@truthis

Are you being wilfully obtuse or have you never attended a first aid course?

And what is wrong with a child's knickers being momentarily seen from under their knee length skirt?

Absolutely nothing in my opinion

But this wouldn’t be that...you can be laying in one position for quite sometime and have your legs moved around quite a lot - it would not be a momentary flash of a child’s knickers - that’s the point and it’s why I said it’s nothing like doing a cartwheel

Adults are requested to wear comfortable trousers to attend the course, asking children to do the same really is no big deal.

Lol ChippingInLowCarbing

1st aid trained and years of working with children and safeguarding. A quick google shows all sorts of school training with girls in dresses and skirts and boys in shorts! I'm not going to post the images as they're school children but they evidently weren't turned away from the training by trainers worried about knickers.
And the movement of legs should be when putting someone into the recovery position or bandaging a lower limb - unless childbirth is on the agenda??

I did cpr course as a teacher wearing a skirt. The people behind me saw more than they needed to!!