Should I raise this with School?

[Paraballa]

My Dd is year 6, so kids aged 10/11. They have a trip to the local hospital coming up where they will learn about first aid and practice the recovery position, using a defibrillator, etc.

School has explicitly said that skirts are not to be worn as they're unsuitable for role play on the floor.

I am about this as I've worn skirts for similar courses and not had a practical issue, plus I feel like they're being rather pearl-clutchy about the possibility of a quick flash of knickers from little girls in front of their peers.

I'm tempted to email school about it as they say if skirts are worn the girls can't take part.

DD currently only has skirts. I can buy School trousers, she wants some anyway, but I'm not happy at the general message being sent out.

I wasn't sure if this was the right forum but it feels like a feminist issue to me.

@morriseysquif, read my post above yours. Taking part in training comes with entirely different issues than actually giving CPR in an emergency setting.

The training cam be quite physical so it probably would be more comfortable in tracksuit

I take it they never instruct the girls to sit on the floor at school?

Doing something in a life or death emergency situation is very different to practising it in a classroom eg when I go to hospital for an appointment and I'm required to undress the Dr usually offers to leave the room or pulls the curtain round while I get undressed. However, were I to collapse and require CPR I very much doubt they would expect me to get undressed beforehand!

I wore dresses as a nurse in the 80s and 90s and they were incredibly impractical when we lifted patients or performed CPR. One lift we had to perform was the Australian lift and involved us having to kneel on the bed with one leg, the other foot planted on the floor and in order to do this you had to hitch the dress right up to thigh level. They actually introduced trousers in order to reduce back injuries amongst staff because they found nurses were moving awkwardly to try and avoid flashing to everyone while doing these lifts.

In this case they are obviously requesting trousers to be worn so that the girls can move around and be manoeuvred without worrying about their skirts riding up. So many times on this board I see posters stating that young girls approaching puberty need privacy from male classmates when changing for PE etc yet now all of a sudden there's no.problem with the girls showing their underwear?

Op can you not speak to school, explain that your dd does not have uniform trousers and ask what alternative would be acceptable? Maybe they will allow leggings or other trousers?

I guess they are practicing the recovery position and that'll expose their underwear when lifting the leg etc. I don't see the big deal over the schools request.

I would agree that a skirt is not suitable for doing floor CPR etc. Couldn't imaging doing that type of course in restrictive skirt

Really got to admire the willingness of some on here to be so negative about choosing to wear a skirt. Why would a skirt be restrictive? A full or pleated skirt is much easier to kneel or sit on the floor on than trousers.

Why would a skirt be restrictive? A full or pleated skirt is much easier to kneel or sit on the floor on than trousers.

I don't think wearing a skirt would be an issue if you are performing CPR. I can see it being an issue if you are the "casualty" and being moved into the recovery position though.

I would agree that a skirt is not suitable for doing floor CPR etc

Well let's hope she never has to use this in real life if wearing a skirt is so impractical.

Personally I think it would be better for the girls to wear what they normally wear and the trainer use the practicalities (or otherwise) of clothing to reflect the reality of the situation

Yes agreed

why does society continue to advocate girls in skirts when doing practical things like this render them useless

What utter nonsense- you are free to not wear skirts or dresses but bore off with this exaggerated nonsense.

I find trousers restrictive and uncomfortable me too. Far more restrictive.

DecomposingComposers

Agree with everything you've said, especially this:

So many times on this board I see posters stating that young girls approaching puberty need privacy from male classmates when changing for PE etc yet now all of a sudden there's no.problem with the girls showing their underwear?

It would have been better for the school to recommend suitable clothing for the scenario but things like being put in the recovery position would be more than a momentary show of underwear, not appropriate for any age tbh and probably get very cold legs as well. It should ultimately be up to the pupils but I think any self respecting Y6 would heed the advice. If for real then modesty would be the least of their problems. It sounds like more than modesty as well eg. protection of legs/knees on the floor, trousers don't get in the way of things or need as much readjustment.

For the last time, this advice will have come from the training company, and is more about protecting the instructors (who will need to touch and move the prone girls) than it is about the girls' modesty.

i think skirts arent suitable for this as bare legs, or in tights, would not be comfy on floor. and teachers probably trying to limit excuses for not getting on the floor. When Ive done suchba course Ive just worn trousers as most practical.
I think schools have enough issues to deal with without issues like this being raised.

Have you ever been put in the recovery position in a skirt in-front of 30 peers?! It's absolutely fine in a genuine emergency, but why would you want to put your daughter in a position where she'll be uncomfortable when it can be EASILY avoided.
Had they not recommended it, I bet people would kick off/ cite sexism that girls were put in an embarrassing position.
I'm late 20s and did a first aid course and I got the same recommendation via email (as did my male colleague).

So many times on this board I see posters stating that young girls approaching puberty need privacy from male classmates when changing for PE etc yet now all of a sudden there's no.problem with the girls showing their underwear?

Is it possible that you don't understand what privacy means? Because that really isn't at all paradoxical.

OP it is direct discrimination - unless the uniform isn't sex specific (and it's still indirect if it isn't imo). Can boys attend in their school uniform? Yes. Can girls? No.

Much better that the school understand that to prevent them making this mistake again. They can require own clothes and specify trousers to their hearts' content.

Is it possible that you don't understand what privacy means? Because that really isn't at all paradoxical.

In this instance, no I don't understand. Stripping down to underwear in order to change for pe isn't ok but showing the same underwear whilst demonstrating the recovery position is ok? Maybe you can explain what the difference is?

As for boys can attend in their uniform but the girls can't surely that's only correct if schools are only allowed to wear skirts or dresses for school. Every school that I know of the girls have a choice and can wear both skirts and trousers so trousers are part of the girls school uniform. It's only an issue if parents choose for their daughters to not wear trousers to school isn't it?

It is paradoxical though. I hate modesty shorts' for eg cartwheels because young girls should be free not to worry about flashing their knickers if they themselves have no inhibitions. But this is different - being put in the recovery position and being asked to maintain that pose may mean they are showing their knickers to all their classmates whether or not they feel uncomfortable about it. It's fair warning that they might be better advised to wear trousers in case they do end up in that position where they feel uncomfortable. Perhaps they could have spelt it out clearly and left the girls to decide for themselves but that is making a bit of a meal of things imo. I do agree that they shouldn't be specifying anyone has to buy particular uniform trousers though if skirts are acceptable the rest of the time.

I am a Year 6 teacher and we go take our children on a similar course. In the blurb we get from the hospital, it states that girls are required to wear trousers. We just then relay the same message in the letter we send to parents. If you do raise the issue, you may need to be sure where the advice came from.

However, would you want your daughter to be embarrassed at the likelihood of flashing her knickers? Honestly, no wonder hordes of teachers are leaving the profession...can't seem to get anything right. Fairly sure the next parent would complain if the advice wasn't given

I think the school have phrased it badly because I read it and instantly raised an eyebrow which I don't normally do.

I've put out a request to borrow trousers and if no joy will ask if her pe jogging bottoms or black leggings will be ok.

Perhaps they are asking people to do this to save the girls themselves any embarrassment when getting into positions during the activity. At 11 years old I would have been Mortified if I had to take part in an activity that was very likely going to mean a group of people would see my knickers, especially my classmates.

Also haven't seen a urse wear a dress or skirt at work in a long time.

Fairly sure the next parent would complain if the advice wasn't given

There would definitely be a complaint.

Stripping down to underwear in order to change for pe isn't ok but showing the same underwear whilst demonstrating the recovery position is ok? Maybe you can explain what the difference is?

It's about consent isn't it? And about different people being different and being comfortable with different things.

And it is direct discrimination. Saying 'own clothes and everyone must wear trousers' wouldn't be, but saying 'boys can wear what they wear to school but girls can't' is a really clear example.

That makes no sense. Honestly I am on your side but this is not direct discrimination. Everyone has been advised to wear trousers. At best it's indirect because boys are less likely to be inconvenienced by this request but there's no suggestion of punishment for failing to comply with the request - which has only arisen because girls normally have a choice of acceptable clothing for school.

It's about consent isn't it? And about different people being different and being comfortable with different things.

In what way is about consent?

And different people comfortable with different things?

But that's exactly why I think it's different from modesty shorts. It's about privacy and protecting kids from being uncomfortable, not about imposing adult concepts of modesty on children who have no such concept.