Should I raise this with School?

[Paraballa]

My Dd is year 6, so kids aged 10/11. They have a trip to the local hospital coming up where they will learn about first aid and practice the recovery position, using a defibrillator, etc.

School has explicitly said that skirts are not to be worn as they're unsuitable for role play on the floor.

I am about this as I've worn skirts for similar courses and not had a practical issue, plus I feel like they're being rather pearl-clutchy about the possibility of a quick flash of knickers from little girls in front of their peers.

I'm tempted to email school about it as they say if skirts are worn the girls can't take part.

DD currently only has skirts. I can buy School trousers, she wants some anyway, but I'm not happy at the general message being sent out.

I wasn't sure if this was the right forum but it feels like a feminist issue to me.

I don’t see what the big deal is. Why do people have to get offended over everything nowadays? The school have requested trousers as they’re more suitable for the activities, so just send her in in trousers..

I'm not at all disbelieving you, but what H&S reason could require tights?

I was sceptical too of the H&S benefits of tights. But...when I worked for a large restaurant chain it was either trousers or skirts with tights to protect your legs from hot spills, obviously depends on the denier, but I would have thought the protection was minimal (at best?)

what annoys me the most is that girls are encouraged to wear impractical clothing.

Kneeling on the floor with bare knees is painful. I think in this instance trousers seem far more practical. And yes, even a bit of thin nylon would give some protection against dirt I suppose.

Generally, I prefer it when my daugher wears her school trousers - warmer, and a bit of protection against playground scrapes.

I don't see the problem with this as long as any old trousers are acceptable rather than uniform ones specified.

I'm more taken aback by the nurses wear skirts comments. Nurses uniforms round here have been trousers for decades.

I now see that most posters have thought about it from the point of view of the girls administering the first aid. I was coming from it being the girls being put into recovery position. Either way the focus of the actual training has already been lost if we're all worrying about what we're wearing.

I agree with you Raphael,

Girls are far less likely to squeal & squirm and actually CONCENTRATE of what is actually quite a serious topic, if they are not wriggling about on the floor trying to cover their modesty.

Putting someone in the recovery position these days, from flat on their back, involves basically sliding their heel to their backside. If your average 10 year old wont mind having their knickers on show doing this, crack on.

Its not about ''this can only be done in trousers' mentaility. Its about concentrating and getting on with the subject matter without distraction.

if your ten year old is happy to lay on the floor in a skirt, and have her legs moved around in such a manner, carry on

They may be role playing and practicing manual handling to get the patient in the recovery position involving hand placement between the thighs. I would really think trousers or leggings would be more comfortable. The suggestion may we'll have come from the hospital.
In my hospital nurses can choose dresses or trousers and the majority wear trousers these days.

*may well

Pair of cycling shorts underneath?

I hate the growth of "modesty shorts'" too but I think here I agree with jessbow- they are more warning you that skirts may lead to knickers being on show so that the kids can make an informed choice of what to wear imo. At least, that's how I would choose to read it. I would definitely not be buying anything new - just sending her in PE kit or whatever I had to hand.

so it's the bigger picture - why does society continue to advocate girls in skirts when doing practical things like this render them useless.

Whenever I see things like this I am reminded on the woman victim of the London Bridge attack, the last inquest, where it was shown that as she ran away from the attacker she feel on her high heels. Something that would never happen to a man. Why the FUCK do we continue to push clothing onto girls and women that put them at a disadvantage to men. WHY?

If a skirt is not practical for every single thing that she is likely to do in school, be it a trip like this or cartwheels in the playground, then it should simply be removed altogether. That is real equality and equity.

why does society continue to advocate girls in skirts when doing practical things like this render them useless.

I'm not sure society does, so much as schools do.

Outside of school girls of 10/11 much more commonly wear trousers, at least round here they do.

Off topic but TIL that nurses in the UK wear dresses as uniform? I don’t think I’ve seen a skirt in a medical setting in my life.

And the uniform thing is ridiculous. I would suggest that if schools find the assigned uniform inappropriate for the required activities of the day, students should be allowed to wear street clothes on that day, as you say if skirt is an option some will choose it. Obvs.

If a skirt is not practical for every single thing that she is likely to do in school, be it a trip like this or cartwheels in the playground, then it should simply be removed altogether. That is real equality and equity. Exactly.

Just send her in trousers, she wants them anyway and they are more practical.

Honestly, not everything needs to be a war. Your poor kid. She wants rhe trousers, the school wants her to wear the trousers, and she likely doesn't want to be the only girl there in a skirt or some sort of war with the school started about it.

Just get her the trousers, then you book yourself on a first aid course and go in a skirt, knock your self out.

I agree with Raph and Jess. This is a physical, practical course.

And the training room floors in hospitals are not cleaned to the same standards as the operating theatres!

Nurses wear dresses and manage just fine

You're clearly very healthy and stay away from hospitals as nurses haven't worn skirts/dresses for at least 10 years!

I think the best question OP, is will your daughter mind if her classmates/trainers/teachers see her knickers? If not, fine make a stand and send her in a skirt.

If she will mind then for heavens sake just put her in some leggings

Just briefly clarifying, DD doesn't want trousers right now. She's choosing to wear her summer dresses right now. She likes trousers for winter as she hates tights but she much prefers skirts and hardly ever wears trousers in or out of school.

Anyway, my issue really is with how it's been phrased and the underlying current of "modesty" which is bullshit.

As for "just" getting her trousers, people are making assumptions about our financial situation. Most of my children's uniform and ordinary clothes is second hand and gifted to us. Summoning up money for unnecessary trousers is not necessarily possible. Which is why she hasn't any right now, especially as she only wants them for winter.

I have wondered whether this obsession with not seeing a glimpse of knickers on young girls is part of the sexualisation of girls in general. The whole “modesty shorts” thing started in the US, I noticed them on the US Landsend website long before they became a thing here.
I was at Primary School in the seventies, we had no uniform , so wore dresses more in warm weather, we all did handstands and cartwheels, no one made us feel bad. We wore sturdy pants, we were children. In Winter we had thick tights on with skirts anyway, or trousers.
Surely it defeats the point of a cool, simple Summer dress if a girl has to wear hot cycling shorts underneath ?
I agree with you OP, your daughters clothes sound fine for this , she must do some things at school where they sit on the floor surely ?
Having to buy trousers for this one thing seems a bit high handed.

It could be that the people running the course do not want to be lifting the leg of young girls into the recovery position, touching their bare legs and risking any accusations.

There are really strict rules around this now, I can coach a water sport and we have to insist on wetsuits, in part so that I don't touch their skin. My husband can teach climbing and has to be very careful with how they put harnesses on. For us the rules apply to male and female coaches equally and male and female children equally. The difference is only girls might be wearing skirts.

I'm not sure this fight is the right direction, I'd instead argue for them to wear their own clothes that day that fit the remit- so girls aren't forced to buy uniform trousers they don't want.

my issue really is with how it's been phrased and the underlying current of "modesty" which is bullshit

I don't see an underlying current of 'modesty' from your opening post. I read skirts are not to be worn as they're unsuitable for role play on the floor as a practical consideration. Every first aid course I've been on (all with the Red Cross) has specified not just trousers but 'comfortable trousers such as jogging bottoms or yoga pants' and 'practical, flat shoes such as trainers'.

Also 10/11 year olds are not 'little' girls, at that age many are starting to go through puberty, some will have already started menstruating and more are uncomfortable potentially showing their knickers than not. Plus schools often specify trousers for outdoor activities and trips, it isn't a particularly unusual request.

If your daughter doesn't have any trousers at all could she not borrow a pair from a friend?

What LetsSplashMummy said. I would think the clothing request has come from the hospital. They are obviously massively strict about safeguarding, these courses often have male HCPs - nurses/paramedics doing the training. It's probably one of their standard risk assessments conditions.
It's great the hospital provides this service into local schools and your daughter is lucky to have this opportunity. Just send her in trousers. Borrow if necessary. Maybe the school has some lurking in lost property she could use.

I don't see it as sexualisation so much as practicality. Being able to move around a casualty and administer CPR, being a casualty without worrying about flashing your knickers isn't sexualising girls, it's wearing appropriate clothing for the very practical activity.

On my soapbox, but PLEASE buy your daughter trousers so she at least has a choice. The fact is that girls and women move differently in skirts, even in free moving pleated ones you've always got a little part of your brain focused on keeping it in place. The embodied result of what you wear has an effect on your mind and thought processes- little girls in skirts learn to take up less space than those wearing trousers. Don't get me wrong I do wear skirts but I feel passionately that everybody should be aware that it teaches girls and women behaviours that are not empowering.

I’ve been on 2 first aid courses and both specifically said not to wear skirts
Yabu