Kink shaming

[Pota2]

www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/the-porn-you-watch-shouldnt-be-kink-shamed/11453254

The danger with this is, if anything goes in terms of fantasies, how can we legitimately separate this from e.g. fantasies about children? If it’s cool to fantasise about rape and abuse, how can it not be cool to fantasise about a 9 year old child being abused or an animal being abused? I know that those who defend the ‘anything goes’ attitude will say ‘of course there is a difference’ but I can’t really see one, unless you are suggesting that rape is not as morally reprehensible or something (in which case, why isn’t it?).

This won’t end well. Sexual fantasies should be held to the same level of scrutiny as other fantasies or thoughts. If you get off on being violent to another person, you’re still a violent person. You don’t get a get out of jail free card because you say it gives you a hard-on.

NotBadConsidering

so how do we make it all go away then, what is the right answer? I beleive that removing the taboo around things can allow people to better understand them. that these are complex issues and that we do not serve them by just using shame.

I don’t think that the ‘it doesn’t harm anyone if it’s written/actors’ is good enough. It still does harm and should be treated as ‘getting sexual enjoyment from watching/imagining/reading about someone (often a vulnerable person) being harmed’ and judged as such.

It really is sick how popular incest fantasies are among men. But I think we need to confront the idea that it’s just monsters and freaks who abuse children or rape women. Given how many people have been abused as children and women who have been raped as adults, there’s a significant number of men who are pedophiles and/or rapists. By dismissing their predilections as fantasy or kink, we are helping them to normalise and excuse their behaviour in their heads.

Bespin how can we remove the shame around getting off on incest, rape, abuse? Those are activities that are inherently shameful. We must make clear to people why they are shameful and the harm they cause to victims, even if you don’t consider that there is an immediate victim.

By saying that we should destigmatise them, we will then be forced to accept non-offending MAPs etc. It has already started to happen- people who see their attraction to kids as okay as long as they don’t act on it and just another kink

I don't get how anyone can argue that we should remove taboos / shame from paedophilia, rape, incest etc? It's these taboos that keep people safe. There's nothing wrong with qualified psychiatrists etc researching and studying in order to treat sex offenders but the idea that the rest of us should be 'kind' and understand these issues is just a nonsense. Surely it's being kind and tolerant to predators that is enabling so much sexual harm to happen to others?

Sounds like queer theory to me - breaking down taboos, normalising paedophilia, stopping the shaming of men’s perverted sexual interests.

Why wouldn’t I think this is a good thing? 🤔

Kick shaming = normalisation of fetishes.

Let's just get rid of the euphemisms here.

They are arguing to remove boundaries because people who aren't clear on boundaries are much easier to manipulate.

Wrong way round Redbush

Stop shaming kinks = normalisation of perverted sexual behaviour

Apparently kink shaming should be shameful

The phrase kink shaming is manipulative itself. Shaming others is generally a bad thing to do so it gives the impression you are a bad person if you kink shame.

Thankfully lots of us aren't looking for acceptance amongst pornographers.

Yes you are right. That's what a pint does to my brain!

It’s known that MRA, TRA, and pedophile groups target MN because of our strong feminist/GC base. I am extremely suspicious of some of these derails.

Hence my post upthread.

Things that should happen:

People should be able to talk openly with therapists without shame about why they are turned on by illegal acts.

Things that should not happen:

I shouldn’t be forced to listen to people complain about how they are turned on by illegal acts and people aren’t nice about it.

Why is shame bad anyway? Shame can be brilliant. Shame brings real change. When people are ashamed of their actions they can properly realise there’s a problem. People stop drinking and go to AA when the shame of their actions on their family sinks in. People lose weight when they’re ashamed they can’t walk up the stairs or keep up with their kids. As a pp has said, being publicly shamed for drink driving has been very successful. People who feel no shame whatsoever are dangerous, sociopathic. Some things people shouldn’t be shamed for and are and that’s a problem, but when they should, it can be very useful.

The problem is the cohorting together of different kinks:

“I like to be tied up and submissive and that doesn’t make me a bad person. Don’t kink shame me!”

“Yes, and I like to fantasise about rape/paedophilia/violence/wanking in my rubber suit at work at a children’s charity, I’m just like you, being kink shamed! We should fight this together!”

Er, no.

No-one has to be nice about your interests though. Morris dancers and trainspotters are almost universally slated. They just get on with it.

If you've got legal kinks, get on with it in private and there's no issue.

I like to be tied up and submissive and that doesn’t make me a bad person. Don’t kink shame me

Except that is not what they are actually saying, often what they are actually saying is:

“I like to talk about my sexual proclivities in inappropriate settings, inflicting this on others who do not want to be part of the conversation, expose children to adult conversation, and ignore other’s boundaries, Don’t kink shame me!”

Yes you’re right. As I said at the beginning, no one would ever be kink shamed if they just STFU about their private lives.

there are social taboos against these things again in the USA some states allow child marriage something that is a social taboo in the UK. so they are stupid right.?

Yes actually- stupid and evil. Sometimes cultural imperialism isn't actually a bad thing.

Your comment seems to suggest that one culture should not comment on the practices of another culture even if the practice is child rape

It might be apocryphal but there is the story of a British army officer explaining that suttee might well be part of Hindu culture and tradition but British rule of law applied. British tradition was that a person who kills a person by burning them to death would find the curious British tradition of putting a noose around the neck of such a person would apply.

step. Daddy' and step sibling porn

Yeah but that's not like real incest where you're biologically related, is it? They are only related through marriage so I don't see the issue with that in particular, obvs ages matter and whether they consider themselves real siblings or whatever.

Honflyr you are revealing yourself there. Incest is not just to do with the genetic risk on inbreeding.

No, its power imbalance too, but there are scenarios of step-siblings who are late teens or something and like eachother, and they wouldn't see themselves as being related in any way would they? To them they are just two teens. It's different when you're raise together. I just can't see myself considering the son of my mum's new boyfriend / eventual husband as my brother in that way. Like I never even knew my dad and if I met my half-brother he wouldn't feel like my brother despite being related.

Got a weird kink? Talk to someone if you wish. Talk to a therapist. But don’t talk to me and insist I listen without judgement. Some things are shameful and taboo for a very good reason.

I have the feeling some people don’t just want to let everyone else know about their oh-so-edgy sex life, they want and demand total acquiescence to whatever they are up to. Lest they feel judged and shamed. Poor dears.