Kink shaming

[Pota2]

www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/the-porn-you-watch-shouldnt-be-kink-shamed/11453254

The danger with this is, if anything goes in terms of fantasies, how can we legitimately separate this from e.g. fantasies about children? If it’s cool to fantasise about rape and abuse, how can it not be cool to fantasise about a 9 year old child being abused or an animal being abused? I know that those who defend the ‘anything goes’ attitude will say ‘of course there is a difference’ but I can’t really see one, unless you are suggesting that rape is not as morally reprehensible or something (in which case, why isn’t it?).

This won’t end well. Sexual fantasies should be held to the same level of scrutiny as other fantasies or thoughts. If you get off on being violent to another person, you’re still a violent person. You don’t get a get out of jail free card because you say it gives you a hard-on.

Honflyr

that is exactly the issue and the reason that people develop maladaptive ways of managing there fantasy life and that can lead to problems. I would hope any therapy was a same space but we all come with these judgements and worries.

Well clearly! People disagree with that?

Oh yes. Owen Jones and the NSPCC as starters. Apparently it was “bullying” to call out such behaviour:

www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/exclusive-barrister-forces-charity-commission-probe-nspcc-over-workplace-porn-shoot

People disagree with that?

Yes. The wokebros think it is homophobic to criticise such behaviour. The NSPCC think criticising such behaviour is bullying and won't have wicked women bullying their poor, delicate, pervert staff. Owen Jones wrote an entire article defending watching porn in the work place. Lots of people defend the indefensible when it comes to sexual activity.

Bespin how do you characterise ‘does not harm others’? I mean obviously we know that images of actual child abuse harm others. But what about highly realistic computer animation? Could pedophiles say that they are not harming anyone by watching that? I am not so sure. I think certain types of fantasy and literature and porn feeds into a general culture of misogyny and abuse, regardless of whether you can point to a specific person who got hurt when it was being made.

Pota2

have you seen films thst depict rape and abuse, there very realistic when they do, should we also ban them?

Bespin the way you word that implies abuse porn does not involve criminal activity, it does.

nobody is talking about “banning” things.

we’re talking about refusing to accept them, refusing to normalise them, refusing to participate or give tacit acceptance.

interesting that your head moves straight to “banning” though.

have you seen the film you were never really here. if you have what's your view on that or other such films do they normalise child abuse or do they highlight the issue, emotions and feelings in a way that allows us to form a view of it. I know it was one of the hardest films I've ever seen.

Do you know the difference between films made for dramatic reasons, and pornography Bespin?

No I haven’t seen that film but I have seen films that I think portray violence in unnecessary pornographic detail. I switch off at this as I don’t think it is necessary to make the point of the story. It is’shameful’.

NotBadConsidering

is there a difference? do you feel its the intent of the film maker that is importent or the actions in the film. we were talking about animation so no actual sex or real people.

Birdsfoottrefoil

this is the question of what art should and should not pertray does it simply reflect the world it is in or help to build that world.

I just think that if we say that there is absolutely nothing wrong with watching someone be raped and abused (where it’s gratuitous and not part of a wider storyline) then we can’t legitimately argue that there is something wrong with watching/reading/writing about child abuse and incest, as long there aren’t any ‘real’ people hurt. The authors of that article would surely never admit to accepting pedophilia (or MAPs) as a ‘kink’ but on a philosophical level, where can you draw the line between the two? Surely a pedophile who claims never to have offended can say that his urges are a ‘kink’? If he can’t, why can’t he?

is there a difference?

Do you watch pornography for the plot and potentially Oscar-winning acting performances?

Pota2

that is true, where are the lines who sets them, are there agreed lines. I personally find child marriage very problematic though in the Usa it's fine in a lot of places.

NotBadConsidering

that's just a subjective argument around quality both have acting and a story in them. if you think there good or not is not the issue

Anyone can think whatever they like in their heads.

Whether they should be provided with Film of other people acting it out (or it really happening, because no one knows really what they're watching) is the question here.

This woman can fantasise about being violently raped and throttled as much as she likes. But why the fuck should she get to watch this being done to another woman (and how much is acting) is the question. Porn isn't pretend, the choking is real, any violence, the sex, its real.

Yes I judge the shit out of her.

I wouldn't if she was just using her imagination.

Fraggling

so you are judging other woman for there choices of what they do either becuse they enjoy it or becuse they have chosen it as there work?

That’s just nonsense though isn’t it?

A porn film showing rape has the intention of sexually stimulating its viewer with the act of rape. Nothing else.

A cinematic film showing rape should not have the intention of sexually stimulating its viewer. Where that line is blurred the film is criticised by critics and commentators.

If those lines are becoming blurred to people like you that’s part of the problem.

Bespin, come on.

'that's just a subjective argument around quality both have acting and a story in them. if you think there good or not is not the issue'

To be clear, in a film about csa, any imagery around anyone fucking a child will be pretend

In a pornographic film about csa, the fucking will be real.

I know you enjoy being contrary on threads like this with the women do it too and the what about fanfic and the what about cartoons and the where do you draw the line with art and so on but these are diversions and misdirections to move away from the central conversation which is, violent / extreme porn / porn around tabboo acts.

NotBadConsidering

so it's intent then, but films do have unintended effects on people.
There was a famous serial killer who's name I've forgotten and when he was arrested he had copies of something quite mundane that he had built up a fexation on.

Ah xposts

Accusation off what certain people like to call 'whorephobia' that's not new either.

I haven't mentioned the women in the industry except to point out that no one knows, really, what they're watching.

The lines I think will always be blurred even if the rape scene in the film isn't romanticised and is shown to be traumatic, torturous, abusive

In a pornographic film about csa

no the people would not be children but consensual adults that look younger.

Bespin so you would say that when men who commit violent / sexual crimes are found to have lots of relevant porn on their computers (plenty of cases where murderers have had loads of strangulation porn etc) then the material has likely pushed them on to act.

Interesting. The porn industry disagrees with you by the way.