Rich men / beautiful women

[Tararhu2]

Probably feminism 101 ... I’m trying talk to my daughter about feminism. She’s 17 and thinks she’s 27. Won’t listen to me. So We’ve been talking about Harvey Weinstein....I think her views are a bit misogynist. She says something like:

‘for every woman he abused there must have been at least one other one who slept with him willingly to get ahead.’

She then said ‘until very women stop using their beauty to get ahead they will always be objectified and creeps like Harvey will have the chance to thrive. Rape os never ok and never justifiable. However, the sense of entitlement rich men have over beautiful women and subsequent opportunities for abuse are in part caused by women. Until women stop objectifying themselves we cannot expect equality. Women who marry far less attractive, older richer men for money are traitors to us all. They perpetuate the Beauty/power exchange and let us all down.’

Isn’t this victim blaming at its best? Or am I just old fashioned to think that wearing a short skirt doesn’t mean your asking for it. How do I explain it to her?

@Cam77

It's not underprivileged top trumps. So it's ok for a poor girl to marry for money because at least she's not dealing drugs. These are two different and unrelated issues.

Women can take a trade profession, just as a man can become a nurse or a primary school teacher (I personally know a couple of both). Of course, people stepping outside the norm will always meet the odd bit of prejudice along the way, but sadly that’s human nature and is the price of change, though of course government initiatives can and should help with men and women taking more careers outside the typically predetermined gender boxes. In fact, IMO, nowhere is this more needed than in getting more men into early years education.

I didn’t say it’s okay for women to marry for money, I said that both men and women from underprivileged backgrounds often end up taking undesirable actions to survive. So in a way it is very much related, because they have the same cause (poverty, lack of family/societal support) - solve the issues of underprivileged girls and you’ll likely solve many of the issues of underprivileged boys too.

Only read the first post but your daughter is at least a bit right.
Good on her

This thread is explicitly about Harvey Weinstein and the entertainment industry, not Starbucks and Tesco.

Not entirely. Weinstein is mentioned, but also beautiful younger women marrying older wealthy men.

Wealth is relative. The power imbalance can exist at much lower wealth levels so it could be the Tesco manager marrying the attractive woman on the checkout who is half his age. Or my old maths teacher marrying a shop assistant half his age for that matter.

In fairness to my old maths teacher, which I really don't like to be as I hated him, he met his wife at church and their relationship seems to have been based on mutual interest. They're still married, happily from outward appearance, 30 years on.

I’d argue that there aren’t femalecoded jobs or malecoded jobs, there are simply jobs. But if you want to go down that route, then plenty of typical male jobs also suck big time. If they are better laid it’s because they are either a) require longer training/higher qualifications b) more dangerous c) longer/antisocial hours.

better “paid”, even...

What’s your experience joyfullittlehippo? Or have you written about it elsewhere?

Women can take a trade profession, just as a man can become a nurse or a primary school tteacher

I would consider these academic jobs and still in need of university education.

I believe we were talking about people who don't have wealth or education. If you have the means to become a teacher you probably don't feel your only commodity is your body.

Also my family are trademen, it would take a specific type of woman to feel able to enter that world and get on it in.

Sorry about that!

@peneloppitstop1234 fair point

Thanks for sharing that op. It is worrying and it needs to change. Can I ask if it's just the women who are expected to be like this? Is there a casting couch for male actors too?

Sorry not op penelopepitstop1234

Joyfullittlehippo thank you for expanding on that. And I equally detest the constant objectification/sexualisatiin of women which is still so commonplace. However, I’d argue that while patriarchy may have created the situation, it is now simply the capitalist system which drives it forward. The female multimillionaires in the fashion, music and beauty industry (there are many others which benefit from the objectification of women, but just for example) are every bit as invested in the defence of the status quo as their male counterparts.

"What she is saying is that as long as there are some women who are happy to create a sort of sexual blackmarket in the film industry, or in other settings, that will mean that sex is a currency and there will be pressure for all women in that industry to participate in it."

Look at you directly blaming women for creating a "sexual blackmarket", directly blaming women for the abuses men commit against women, blaming competition between women for men-held resources in order to remove some percentage of blame from Harvey Weinstein.

Do you think all prostitution exists because women created it and want it despite millions of trafficking victims, or is your contempt for prostituted women only reserved for the kinder and gentler whoring of the Pretty White Woman(tm) who is the central figurehead of incel rage?

This is an interesting thread - I have never asked for some kind of reward for sex but I have sort of used it as an incentive to get what I want. That sounds bad but sometimes men are easily persuaded by the offer of some sexual favors for certain opportunities that women would not get without using some leverage.

Just to add this was years ago when I was young free and single.

If you didn't ask for any rewards from sex and he was the one who made the offer, how do you figure it was you who did the persuading and him who was 'easily' persuaded?

@sillage

I have no idea, but we both got what we wanted in the end.

So you didn't offer, he didn't offer, somehow his penis got inside you but you aren't sure how. Okay.

But shouldn't those with power give help to those without -without asking for sex in return.

You know men help each other out all the time - but they ask for nothing in return apart from a similar favour if the situation arises. They definitely don't ask for sexual gratification in return (obviously sex abuse of men does go on but I'm speaking of hetro men)