Drag practice: more authentic that actually being a woman?

[Patnotpending]

I was listening to Saturday REview on Radio 4 yesterday and there was a discussion about the latest Almodovar film. Dorian Lynsky, music writer for the Guardian, says that something in the film relates to:

'drag practice, in which to channel femininity is more authentic than being a woman.'

My jaw dropped – and so did that of the presenter, Tom Sutcliffe, who instantly picked him up on it. It was laughed off, but only after Lynsky repeated that this was drag practice. It's here, at around 05.58 minutes in:

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0007wkd

Can this really be true – that men in drag think they are being more authentic feminine than women? It's just so fucked-up, so obviously based on sex stereotypes. What are all these idiots on?

Yes of course drag acts are more authentically female than real women, OP. Just as blackface minstrel acts are more authentic than real black people. Oh, wait....

in which to channel femininity is more authentic than being a woman.'
My jaw dropped

I’m not sure why, because this is perfectly true

(Depending on what you think a woman is! If woman = external appearance and mannerisms then of course you can do better than ‘female picking up the weekly shopping in Tesco.’ This of course neatly dovetails with why some transitions go fir the porn star look.)

If I wear make-up or high heels or tights I feel like I'm in drag.
And I'm whatever a female-woman is currently allowed to be called.

So I'm not sure what this means or what authentically channelling femininity is.

I think that falls under the newly added 15th rule of misogyny: Men are better at performing femininity than women are because they invented it and it gives them a boner.

Men are better at performing femininity than women

I'm not sure why you (general you) are so upset by that given so many of you post frequently about how much you hate and avoid anything feminine.

given so many of you post frequently about how much you hate and avoid anything feminine.

Do we? I myself am very feminine. I think what we hate is that women are pressurised to perform femininity.

Regardless, drag acts are definitely not more feminine than women - they are an outlandish and (IMO) insulting exaggeration of femininity - pantomime dames combined with a pornified idea of what a woman is.

Being feminine does not make a woman. Be as feminine as you want but it does not make a woman. Clothes, make up or acting does not make a woman.

Do we? I myself am very feminine. I think what we hate is that women are pressurised to perform femininit

Oh come off it - are you seriously saying you've never seen the large amount of posts on here from posters who never wear dresses/ skirts/ make- up/ nail varnish/ tights / heels etc. etc ? It's a badge of honour trotted out on every thread discussing clothes and appearance.

Do you have to "wear dresses/ skirts/ make- up/ nail varnish/ tights / heels etc. etc ?" to be feminine?

are you seriously saying you've never seen the large amount of posts on here from posters who never wear dresses/ skirts/ make- up/ nail varnish/ tights / heels etc. etc ? It's a badge of honour trotted out on every thread discussing clothes and appearance.

Why do you think it's a 'badge of honour'? I've sometimes posted stuff like that, but it's not a 'badge of honour', just a statement of fact.

Just reread my post Zebra. It sounds as though it was directed at you, but I posted before reading everyone's responses.

I meant that it doesn't matter how someone performs femininity, you either are a woman or not. A woman does not have to perform to be a woman, they just are.

It always strikes me how feminine many trans men look - despite wearing men's clothes, cutting their hair short, and obvs wearing no makeup.

If they haven't touched testosterone yet, then most are unmistakably feminine.

Drag is not feminine - it is a parody of femininity.

No, no, jogger - I realised that

Ok - a google search to settle it. A google images search of:

• Germaine Greer

• Feminist Campaigner Laura Bates

• Drag Acts.

Who are more feminine?

Do you have to "wear dresses/ skirts/ make- up/ nail varnish/ tights / heels etc. etc ?" to be feminine?

I am feminine without the performance, as are most women.
The performance requirements are the problem.

Wow marguarita the disdain for female failing to woman properly just drips from your posts. You should try a little harder to hide it. Or maybe you’re beyond caring how sexist it makes you look.

Here’s the thing, most women do not have to wear make up, slinky dresses, heels or nail polish to look like women (feminine) ALL drag artists do and, despite their best efforts, the vast majority of them are still perceivably men. The real test would be how they’d match up in the feminine stakes sans artifice against similarly unprimped women? I’m going to guess they wouldn’t make the lower division playoffs let alone the Champions’ league finals.

Yes, I’ll concede, some will be far more proficient with the contouring and the lipliner and the spray tanning and the accessorizing and the corsetry than me or other mere women but, frankly, so are Kim Kardashian and Kylie Jenner, and like the Karjenners, I’d argue that the image and presentation is pretty much a drag artist’s fucking job isn’t it?

Oh authentic doesn't mean authentic any more.

I'm not sure what it does mean – I think somewhere close to the opposite.

Eg, in a programme about the Trump election campaign, the woman who ghost-wrote some of his social media described it as a "very authentic" experience.

Huh? That's the epitome of fakery!

I keep coming across it in contexts like that, relating to fooling people and popularism or emotional appeal.

Well, precisely PerkingFaintly, in these degenerate post-modern post-truth times if literal also means figurative, there’s no reason why authentic can’t also mean fake or artificial. No reason at all except that when up is down and out is in I’m feeling very old suddenly.

Indeed.

The closest meaning I've been able to distill of the new usage of "authentic" is: "I know it's not true, and you know it's not true, but we like this version better than reality so we'll go with this."

Drag is as offensive as black face.

I heard that! I thought it was Adam Mars Jones but was cooking at the time and not concentrating fully, being authentically feminine and all that. He got very irritated when challenged as well.

Well, only if you think being a woman is performing ludicrous stereotypes. There is no way of being a woman. You either are or you aren’t, depending on what your body is. There’s no way that you can become a woman through acting a certain way.

Oh and would love to see how it goes down when I say that I (white) am more authentically black than black people because I make such an effort with my hoop earrings, braided hair and my love of reggae music. I mean I hope I’d get beaten up but who knows in this weird new world.

No issue with men wearing dresses and makeup and heels and stuff. That stuff does not ‘belong’ to women. The problem comes when they say that makes them women.

Drag is as offensive as black face.

I actually think it is really offensive! This comes as a surprise to me but those pictures have made me cross. With the balance of power as it is and the number of men on women murders and rapes, it's parodying women quite cruelty.