Drag practice: more authentic that actually being a woman?

[Patnotpending]

I was listening to Saturday REview on Radio 4 yesterday and there was a discussion about the latest Almodovar film. Dorian Lynsky, music writer for the Guardian, says that something in the film relates to:

'drag practice, in which to channel femininity is more authentic than being a woman.'

My jaw dropped – and so did that of the presenter, Tom Sutcliffe, who instantly picked him up on it. It was laughed off, but only after Lynsky repeated that this was drag practice. It's here, at around 05.58 minutes in:

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0007wkd

Can this really be true – that men in drag think they are being more authentic feminine than women? It's just so fucked-up, so obviously based on sex stereotypes. What are all these idiots on?

They [trousers] are very unflattering on anyone larger than a size 10.

More or less flattering than me flashing my knickers and ripping my tights as I crawl under lab benches to deal with equipment?

Some of us wear trousers because wearing skirts is a stupid idea in our work or hobbies. Some of us wear trousers to have the option of thermal leggings when the weather turns cold.

No thanks for the body shaming.

No thanks for the body shaming

Oh the drama This has nothing to do with work wear. You were presumably happy to to let the nonsensical comment about all women look better in trousers stand? That was dim and untrue. I'm not however going to cry in a corner that I was "body shamed"

Body shaming is so overly dramatic. In my opinion very few women look good in trousers, no matter how comfortable or practical they might be.

I would also argue that the care assistant wearing trousers and flats to work as she looks after terminally-ill cancer patients is much more feminine than the AGP software developer in dress and heels who doesn't give a shiny shit about anyone other than h**self.

m not however going to cry in a corner that I was "body shamed

You werent body shamed

Nothing was said about what size you should be to look good in a dress

No. I was replying to you. Because you seemed to be saying that the only consideration in choosing what clothes to wear was how they looked on you. A fat-arsed (size 12) woman like me might choose to wear trousers just because they're practical, even if I looked more decorative in a skirt

But you are happy to let the nonsense that all women look better in trousers and the sexist nonsense that men look great in skirts stand? Why aren't you challenging those comments?

And what , btw, is so weird about choosing clothes on the basis of what they will look like on me? I didn't say it was the only consideration but I'm certainly not going to choose clothes which are ugly or unflattering just because they are comfortable.

MargueritaBlue

It's the size ten part of your comment that I take issue with. It's called sizeism.

I can't disagree with the poster who said all women she's seen to date look better in trousers, because I haven't seen all the women she's seen. She might simply have never yet seen a woman who she thinks looks better in a skirt. She might see one tomorrow! You never know. Also, her opinion didn't come with an attitude of "anyone size twelve or bigger is too fat for certain clothes".

You werent body shamed

Nothing was said about what size you should be to look good in a dress

I didn't say I was. What I said was I'm not going to cry body shaming because of the idiotic comment about all women look better in trousers.

I'm also entitled to my opinion on large areas not looking good in trousers. If that's "body shaming" - tough. I don't like thought policing.

It's the size ten part of your comment that I take issue with. It's called sizeism

I really don't care if it is sizeism.

Your comment was pretty below the belt Marguerita. I don’t give a shit if it annoyed you that someone prefers trousers to skirts, saying that only thin women look good in certain things is not on. Especially in a feminist forum. Don’t like it on yourself? Fine. But don’t drag down the majority of the female population with you.

I really don't care if it is sizeism

We got that bit

And luckily im allowed my opinion that it was a mean thing to say

You could have said

Ive never met a woman who looks good in trousers....

and like the other poster i would just have thought you didnt get out much

But as i dont care about my opinion and you sure as shit dont care about mine I’ll leave it there

Not my opinion obvs

For goodness sake...whats the point of me flouncing if I’m going to get it wrong

It's the size ten part of your comment that I take issue with. It's called sizeism

I really don't care if it is sizeism.

Perhaps FWR isn't the best forum for you, because you are going to face considerable dissent, including from eating disorder survivors for whom comments like yours may trigger a relapse, when you post comments like that.

I can't disagree with the poster who said all women she's seen to date look better in trousers, because I haven't seen all the women she's seen. She might simply have never yet seen a woman who she thinks looks better in a skirt

It's not a very likely scenario is it? Out of all the women she's seen in her entire lifetime of say anything between 30- 60 years every single one of them would have looked better in trousers?

But gets a free pass as it's her opinion. I would not have mentioned my opinion on how unattractive trousers are had she not posted that.

And luckily im allowed my opinion that it was a mean thing to say

You could have said

Ive never met a woman who looks good in trousers....

But that would be untrue. Some women do look fantastic.

wacademia

When i saw the women look better in trousers i just thought...oh thats silly and thought no more about it

But saying no one over a size 10 in trousers looks good is mean and silly

I'm still not going to be thought policed Rufus I'm never going to say that to anyone. I'm never not going to employ someone simply because of their appearance. That would indeed be mean and silly but telling me what allowed to think is another matter.

I dress like a woman. Boots and jeans to run away from men in. High necked tees to try avoid men's gaze. Baseball hat to try and hide my face.
I'm still a woman. People born with penises are not women, as conventionally feminine as they might TRY to appear.

I would just like to point out to anyone reading the thread that I haven’t told anyone what they should think

I really dont like seeing my name linked to thought policing or telling people what they should think

And I’m honestly going to leave it here

I hope you have a good evening marguerita and I’m sure I’ll see you on other threads...its just that as you can see I’m rubbish at not responding

I'm still not going to be thought policed Rufus I'm never going to say that to anyone.

You just did "say that to anyone". You told the whole board that you think we look terrible in trousers unless we are really thin.

It's not a very likely scenario is it? Out of all the women she's seen in her entire lifetime of say anything between 30- 60 years every single one of them would have looked better in trousers?

Depends on how much she likes to see women in trousers . Jokes about some lesbian and bi women's attraction to butch women aside, taste is very individual. I like seeing women in workwear, doing jobs that they enjoy and doing them well. This is unrelated to their figures and very related to liking to be around satisfied and competent people. I think a good mechanic in a boiler suit looks good when working on my car, even if her garment fits where it touches. The same mechanic would look ridiculous in a skirt suit attempting that job. It's possible that the PP in question's taste is related to how women behave in trousers, rather than how they look.

Yes, certain cuts and styles suit some figures better than others. I look like a sack of spuds with a string around the middle if I try to wear hipsters and resemble Sir Topham Hatt if I wear cigarette trousers, but I look great in high-waisted palazzos. I suit a-line skirts but not pencil. I would disagree with you that anyone is too big or too small for an entire class of garment.

I dress like a woman. Boots and jeans to run away from men in. High necked tees to try avoid men's gaze. Baseball hat to try and hide my face. I'm still a woman.

Bet you still get sexually harassed as a woman. It's almost like men don't need sartorial clues to know who the female people are.

Lols rufus. Flounce properly and hopefully not in a pair of unflattering trousers

littl

I flounced in a pair of incredibly unflattering shorts with watermelons on

I kid you not

Ooh I love the watermelon shorts!

I'm wearing a very feminine sundress.

Am in usual. Leggings floaty top

Them shorts are nice rufus

Do they flounce in a goodly manner ?

I also have a number of pairs with parrots on

I have a few friends that have lovely sun dresses...most envious i am