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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Transsexual women face erasure

999 replies

joannegosling2 · 16/08/2019 22:45

It's a fine state of affairs isn't it?

Please - before the administrators axe this post, at least hear me out.

August 2019 - Transsexual women (not the self ID-seeking transgender - I refer to those of us who surgically transition lock, stock and barrel under strict medical supervision but whose narratives have been appropriated by the TG activists and advertised as their own) now being clobbered by feminists, not only here but every where else on the internet too, whether it be on TGN or this new Spinster group I've heard about. I understand the voice of feminism on the latter has reached unseen heights of extremism.

In fact, if I may say, equally as extreme as the trans activists whom feminists have been resisting for quite some time now. But what a difference a week makes. It seems they are now mounting a full-on attack on their own allies - we transsexuals (who are no less
appalled by the behaviour of the transgenderists and feel equally threatened by them), suggesting we are exactly like those same people with no respect at all for women. AND IT IS CATCHING ON.

They insult us further by calling us men and insisting we submit to male pronouns and acknowledge the absurd assumption that we benefit from male privilege (whatever that is, I surely never realized there was any).

For the zillionth time WE are NOT the problem. This entire farce was started by the self ID demands of the TG crowd. It is true - and we recognise - that women are fighting for their rights as never before. But regrettably there are certain feminist agitators who now see this as a golden opportunity to rid the streets and social life of not only
cross-dressing men who seek to enter their spaces but transsexuals too. To this end they have petitioned MPs to scrap the Gender Recognition Act which affords some legal protection to us...which by happy coincidence (though for different reasons) is exactly what their enemies demand also.

So here the two opposing sides have found common ground, and the politicians, having had the wool pulled over their eyes by the TRAs using narratives stolen from us, are joyfully legislating to bring peace and harmony to our troubled society. Cross-dressers will have their self ID on condition they respect segregated spaces and women will be safe from men in their toilets. And we will all live happily ever after.

Not so for us transsexuals. Someone somewhere has decided that we must be the sacrificial lamb to enable this to happen. We must cease to exist as a group. And not existing together with self ID being in place means it will be deemed no longer appropriate to transition via surgical means. Consequently all such treatment, once tailored purely for he needs of transsexuals, will vanish forever.

I hear women repeat over and over that they were never consulted about 'old-school' transsexuals using their spaces like we have done for years. Since in all probability many of you here weren't even born when I had my operation some 30 years ago that would have been rather difficult. And besides I don't recall being consulted about these outrageous proposals to erase me and my compatriots from society. There are certain well-known individuals on social media claiming to be transsexual but who eagerly cow to feminist insistence that they be labelled men. If they are happy to be blokes, fine. But they
certainly do NOT speak for most of us. I will NOT degrade myself in that way just to please others - nor to seek validation.

Personally it matters little whether women accept me or not. They never did when I was trying my best to present myself in the male role either. That used to hurt me a lot. But now I've grown harder. If the feminists treat their allies worse than they do their enemies, then they do not deserve allies. Whilst still supporting women's concerns in general, transsexuals are also entitled to fight for their existence - especially in the face of so many seeking their total erasure.

I believe feminists have singled us out for one simple reason. Thanks to our years of serious and medicated transitioning (unlike the TG community) many of us pass so well women cannot tell should they brush by us in their toilets. (If you have they're most probably cross-dressers). This I feel is what irks them most as it makes it near impossible to keep us out. So the fewer transsexuals enabled to transition, the less will be in their spaces.

I refuse to pay atonement for the sins of transgender activists. I'm sorry but I just cannot accept that from now on we be barred from women's toilets and hospital wards. For I can tell you it will not stop there. Next it will be parks, libraries, shopping centres and schools -
indeed any place where there are children. Apartheid sound familiar?

So know this Mumsnetters. I shall go on using women's toilets as I've done for half my life now. Not because I'm some misogynistic, foul-mouthed lager-drinking bloke who seeks to undermine or abuse women as many feminists seem to relish believing these days, but to
quietly assert my right to exist; you see I do it in the context of the time when black people once sat at segregated lunch counters enduring terrible abuse and violence from bigots.

Feminists can so do their worst. We few transsexuals who are left have nothing to lose now.

OP posts:
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Lamahaha · 22/08/2019 07:18

Nobody attacked you Bespin. People argued your arguments, pointing out the inconsistencies. No need to take this personally.
I do not recall a single personal attack against you.
Most posters here are very careful about sticking to the rules but still posts get deleted. It certainly shows we are touching sensitive nerves...
Now why would that be?

Bespin · 22/08/2019 07:19

Bullies just got to bully I guess Sad

Cascade220 · 22/08/2019 07:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Cascade220 · 22/08/2019 07:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OhHimAgain · 22/08/2019 07:24

Bullies just got to bully I guess

🤣🤣🤣

Someone disagreeing with you and easily pointing out the inconsistencies in your argument isn't bullying, dont be a numpty!

sackrifice · 22/08/2019 07:26

Bullies just got to bully I guess

As bullying is 'to seek to harm, intimidate or coerce' yes it appears that men are bullying women constantly on here. By forcing them to firstly have rules, then intimidating them to keep within the rules or else.

Datun · 22/08/2019 07:27

However, I echo the pp's who have said this thread turned into a right corker. It really has. Wonderful FWR - turning a passive aggressive OP into an informative discussion. And this is why they report.

I agree. And it often happens, doesn't it? These threads meander, touching on different subjects, like an educational stream of consciousness. Very similar to when women are round the kitchen table, or a bar, chatting.

GCAcademic · 22/08/2019 07:32

I come back to this thread to find a number of posts personally attacking me so I think this thread is done. As I have stated before I don't tolerate personal attacks on anyone or bullying. If people can not debate on here without resorting to that then what's the point. in relation to deletions there are a set of rules designed to promote civil debate if you can not post within these rules then just go to spinster and talk to yourselves about stuff

You don’t get to decide when the “thread is done” or where posters should post. You’re not the Feminism Chat police. I’d suggest you take your own advice and stick to platforms where obvious nonsense goes unchallenged. But actually you’re doing a great job on here, albeit not in the way you think.

Snowangel23 · 22/08/2019 07:39

@joannegosling2

Wonderfully written. Just know that on here and in real life there are allies. Sorry this has happened.

OhHimAgain · 22/08/2019 07:41

I’d suggest you take your own advice and stick to platforms where obvious nonsense goes unchallenged

Good advice.

When a child at school tells me they are being bullied, I take it very seriously. In some cases, it's true and i/we put measures in place to address it.

Most of the time, it just means that one 7 year old has said something another 7 year old doesn't like; or doesn't want to play with them; or has disagreed with them about something.

In those cases we roll our eyes (internally, of course) and tell them to just find someone else to play with.

Ali1cedowntherabbithole · 22/08/2019 07:49

Indeed. DD has a classmate who only wants to play when she can be the leader and everyone else does as she tells them.

She’s the first to run to an adult when another child says no.

OhButMyDarling · 22/08/2019 07:50

I believe feminists have singled us out for one simple reason. Thanks to our years of serious and medicated transitioning (unlike the TG community) many of us pass so well women cannot tell should they brush by us in their toilets. (If you have they're most probably cross-dressers).

I wouldn't class myself as a feminist, though I am female..and I do not want to hurt you, but you can always tell, no matter how excellent your transition has been Sad

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 22/08/2019 07:52

No. We can tell but are conditioned to pretend. Well we’re conditioned to pretend. The antics of the activists have changed that.

2BthatUnnoticed · 22/08/2019 07:53

Bullying? Where?

Disagreement does not = bullying.

Someone once told me he was going to rip my ovaries out and feed them to his dog. I didn’t report it (he hadn’t threatened to rape or kill me after all) although now I wish I did.

I genuinely do not see bullying here.

Other than - possibly - in the reporting and deletion of Detroits comment.

Cascade220 · 22/08/2019 08:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 22/08/2019 08:18

Look, when your belief system is build on sand and your arguments are very shaky, then any questioning comment or attempt to discuss/debate will thrown you into an indignant rage. Head in the sand/up own backside.

Try arguing with a small child that they can’t wear their new party clothes to play in the mud (even through they really really want to). Impossible!

zebrasdontwearbras · 22/08/2019 08:21

Strange - I don't see "bullying" - what I see is a huge number of lengthy, informative posts of political discussion. Masculinity, femininity, gender stereotyping, liberalism, cultism and I loved Lamaha's effeminate man story (I too dislike the word effeminate - it does feel somehow derogatory, although there's no reason why men who aren't v masculine should be derided).

And of course, a woman's personal story of finding a refuge space that is a completely male-free space. Oh dear - that's obviously "transphobic" - and so must be reported for deletion.

Something has gone very wrong here. When you analyse this sort of thread, you absolutely see the assault on women's rights that is going on. Because women's rights are for women - but males have found a way to called themselves more oppressed than us, and get in on them too.

OhHimAgain · 22/08/2019 08:23

you can always tell, no matter how excellent your transition has been

I agree.

Given that women are not in the habit of antagonizing strange men, most of us would just ignore. But the mannerisms, the physicality, the voice, the movement... TW might convince themselves that we don't notice, but we do. And we can tell.

And even when they have tried very hard and made a good effort and aren't choosing a highly pornified representation of womanhood to emulate; even if it isn't obvious from their face, everything else gives it away.

ReSistering · 22/08/2019 08:30

They never did when I was trying my best to present myself in the male role either

So all of 'women' reject you? What about 'all of men'. Otherwise thats just highly sexist and utter nonsense

You might feel all women reject you, but frankly therein lies your problem, not women's

they being all women, these same women, they, them, others that you silently crept into the spaces of. These women who rejected you whilst you availed yourself of their private facilities, their protected hospital wards and prison facilities.

So others, them, theirs all becomes interchangeable with mine when you want it to so you can get into those spaces and claim them as your own, no longer theirs or womens but mine, and my right - no bothering to ask those others ...they dont matter, its not important what they think, or whether this brings risk to them!

Bloody hell, women are such a fucking nuisance aren't they. You other us and at the same time want our rights of access, claim to be rejected by all womankind, simply not true, yet a sexist falsehood you cling to.

Quite the dichotomy. I see the agenda.

DuMondeB · 22/08/2019 08:35

This thread is great.

GirlDownUnder · 22/08/2019 08:35

I’ll be honest - I did once report one of Bespin’s comments.

Then reported my own report to rescind, because what happened in the time between the 1st report and the 2nd was the women of FWR not just held their own, they absolutely nailed the abuse and turned the thread round.

MN agreed, and allowed the post to stand.

Sometimes we need adversity to highlight the absolute position of strength that is the GC argument.

Now, I don’t report anything unless it’s a call to violence or an incitement for someone to hurt themselves.

AllNaturalWoman · 22/08/2019 08:35

Bespin, you have the power to chose how you post here

  • if you don't want women to engage with your posts either state that up front or better still don't bother posting because there's no point. This is a discussion board not a word redacted has arrived and will now make a pronouncement board
  • if we engage, discuss, disagree and point out inconsistencies on your posts we are doing what women do on every thread on mumsnet (but with more respect here than elsewhere on MN - go read an AIBU thread if you don't believe me). It is not our fault your statements and arguments don't stand up
  • or you could do what many TW but few women do and flounce off

Your choice but please try and refrain from saying women disagreeing with you are bullies, they are not, they just are allowed to disagree with you here and you're not used to it

The only bully is whoever reported Detroit rather than treat her with compassion

ReSistering · 22/08/2019 08:37

brush by us

There is something very wrong in that phrasing, that you dating women are touching you without them knowing, even though you know women wouldnt be happy about this or give permission for this, you boast about this on a women's forum?!

Horrible, eeeuuww, rapey speak. We're getting one by you, women, we're touching you when you dont know. I see this.

Its a threat.

ReSistering · 22/08/2019 08:41

*that you say (not dating women)

Cascade220 · 22/08/2019 08:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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