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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Transsexual women face erasure

999 replies

joannegosling2 · 16/08/2019 22:45

It's a fine state of affairs isn't it?

Please - before the administrators axe this post, at least hear me out.

August 2019 - Transsexual women (not the self ID-seeking transgender - I refer to those of us who surgically transition lock, stock and barrel under strict medical supervision but whose narratives have been appropriated by the TG activists and advertised as their own) now being clobbered by feminists, not only here but every where else on the internet too, whether it be on TGN or this new Spinster group I've heard about. I understand the voice of feminism on the latter has reached unseen heights of extremism.

In fact, if I may say, equally as extreme as the trans activists whom feminists have been resisting for quite some time now. But what a difference a week makes. It seems they are now mounting a full-on attack on their own allies - we transsexuals (who are no less
appalled by the behaviour of the transgenderists and feel equally threatened by them), suggesting we are exactly like those same people with no respect at all for women. AND IT IS CATCHING ON.

They insult us further by calling us men and insisting we submit to male pronouns and acknowledge the absurd assumption that we benefit from male privilege (whatever that is, I surely never realized there was any).

For the zillionth time WE are NOT the problem. This entire farce was started by the self ID demands of the TG crowd. It is true - and we recognise - that women are fighting for their rights as never before. But regrettably there are certain feminist agitators who now see this as a golden opportunity to rid the streets and social life of not only
cross-dressing men who seek to enter their spaces but transsexuals too. To this end they have petitioned MPs to scrap the Gender Recognition Act which affords some legal protection to us...which by happy coincidence (though for different reasons) is exactly what their enemies demand also.

So here the two opposing sides have found common ground, and the politicians, having had the wool pulled over their eyes by the TRAs using narratives stolen from us, are joyfully legislating to bring peace and harmony to our troubled society. Cross-dressers will have their self ID on condition they respect segregated spaces and women will be safe from men in their toilets. And we will all live happily ever after.

Not so for us transsexuals. Someone somewhere has decided that we must be the sacrificial lamb to enable this to happen. We must cease to exist as a group. And not existing together with self ID being in place means it will be deemed no longer appropriate to transition via surgical means. Consequently all such treatment, once tailored purely for he needs of transsexuals, will vanish forever.

I hear women repeat over and over that they were never consulted about 'old-school' transsexuals using their spaces like we have done for years. Since in all probability many of you here weren't even born when I had my operation some 30 years ago that would have been rather difficult. And besides I don't recall being consulted about these outrageous proposals to erase me and my compatriots from society. There are certain well-known individuals on social media claiming to be transsexual but who eagerly cow to feminist insistence that they be labelled men. If they are happy to be blokes, fine. But they
certainly do NOT speak for most of us. I will NOT degrade myself in that way just to please others - nor to seek validation.

Personally it matters little whether women accept me or not. They never did when I was trying my best to present myself in the male role either. That used to hurt me a lot. But now I've grown harder. If the feminists treat their allies worse than they do their enemies, then they do not deserve allies. Whilst still supporting women's concerns in general, transsexuals are also entitled to fight for their existence - especially in the face of so many seeking their total erasure.

I believe feminists have singled us out for one simple reason. Thanks to our years of serious and medicated transitioning (unlike the TG community) many of us pass so well women cannot tell should they brush by us in their toilets. (If you have they're most probably cross-dressers). This I feel is what irks them most as it makes it near impossible to keep us out. So the fewer transsexuals enabled to transition, the less will be in their spaces.

I refuse to pay atonement for the sins of transgender activists. I'm sorry but I just cannot accept that from now on we be barred from women's toilets and hospital wards. For I can tell you it will not stop there. Next it will be parks, libraries, shopping centres and schools -
indeed any place where there are children. Apartheid sound familiar?

So know this Mumsnetters. I shall go on using women's toilets as I've done for half my life now. Not because I'm some misogynistic, foul-mouthed lager-drinking bloke who seeks to undermine or abuse women as many feminists seem to relish believing these days, but to
quietly assert my right to exist; you see I do it in the context of the time when black people once sat at segregated lunch counters enduring terrible abuse and violence from bigots.

Feminists can so do their worst. We few transsexuals who are left have nothing to lose now.

OP posts:
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littlbrowndog · 20/08/2019 23:08

I can’t bespin as I don’t have a gender but you do have one as you said so how does it show itself the gender

Bespin · 20/08/2019 23:09

I can't help but he horrified and saddened that you were led to believe your only choice was potentially health and life limiting hormones and surgery. It's barbaric.

well that is becuse you are not transgendered and you don't have issues around it. because if you did you too would want to find a solution to it and make your life easier. no one led me to this conclusion I wish it was not the one that was the one I needed I hoped that other ways would meet that need but they didn't. this was the path that improved my life and gave me a future. for that I am greatful.

littlbrowndog · 20/08/2019 23:09

What is the gender thing ?

Bespin · 20/08/2019 23:13

littlbrowndog

do you interact in society at all? if so the perseption of your sex and its impact create a gendered responce. gender was not invented by trans people you know that don't you?

littlbrowndog · 20/08/2019 23:17

I don’t understand your answer at all

I was asking how your gender showed itself to you ?

OldCrone · 20/08/2019 23:17

Bespin The definition of gender is the cultural and social expectations which are placed on us because of our sex. I don't feel I 'have' a gender, but I know that the concept of gender has shaped my life in many ways - it is, to me, an oppressive and negative concept.

I don't think that when you talk about gender you're talking about the same thing as I am, which is why I asked you exactly what you mean when you talk about "my gender".

I feel we need to understand the terms we are using if we are to have any possibility of understanding each other. I really don't understand what it means to feel that you "have" a gender, since to me it is something that has been imposed on me because of my sex.

Bespin · 20/08/2019 23:19

littlbrowndog
it's my part of my enate sence of self. it's been there from the earliest memories, I wish could explain it to you, just as I wish you could explain your sence of self to me.

littlbrowndog · 20/08/2019 23:22

So if what you are saying bespin is that when you were a guy society put expectations onto you to behave in the way that guys are meant to behave and that to you was oppressive ?

Bespin · 20/08/2019 23:23

I really don't understand what it means to feel that you "have" a gender,

this is the whole reason you don't and can not get this because when they match you don't even know it's there. imagine if they didnt match. imagine your body felt wrong to you that how. you saw yourself didn't match how the world saw you or interacted with you on ever occasion. what do you think the outcome of that would be.?

Cascade220 · 20/08/2019 23:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Cascade220 · 20/08/2019 23:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DuMondeB · 20/08/2019 23:25

My gender doesn’t match my sex because gender is a set of arbitrary rules designed to keep women subordinate. I don’t identify with that at all.

littlbrowndog · 20/08/2019 23:26

So it’s society and the way it interacts with you that made you feel wrong ?

Bespin · 20/08/2019 23:26

this is not a passing thought we have this is a consent thing that we often live with for years and is in every daily thought and it never leaves us. transition only makes it manageable and living in a world that places so much importance on it can be exhausting.

Bespin · 20/08/2019 23:29

That just sounds like psychotic delusions though.

that I have had all my life? from my earliest memory? how would propose you treat that?

Bespin · 20/08/2019 23:31

So it’s society and the way it interacts with you that made you feel wrong ?

no my enate sence of self does that society reinforces and amplifies this difference with its fixation on sex and gendered sociatal norms.

littlbrowndog · 20/08/2019 23:33

I Know that I get treated the way I do in society is because I am a women

I guess you felt the same way when you were a man and the interaction you had with society as a man

Gender I just refuse to be bowed down by it No one puts gender stereotypes onto me

Bespin · 20/08/2019 23:33

society up until very recently in the west only allowed for two options based on sex. other cultures for 100s of years have acknowledged that gender is far greater than that. I feel we are often quite behind in our understanding of this.

Bespin · 20/08/2019 23:35

I Know that I get treated the way I do in society is because I am a women

me too, because on the whole society sees me as a woman and reacts to me in the same way occasioanlly it does not do that but on the whole it does. maybe not on here but this is not the real world.

littlbrowndog · 20/08/2019 23:36

Ok bespin. Will leave it. I don’t want to be upsetting you

Nightie

zebrasdontwearbras · 20/08/2019 23:37

The truly progressive society accepts males who want to present as female - as per societal prescribed gender roles. But still protects it's women and girls on the basis of their biology.

Gender dysphoria is a thing - but it's existence doesn't mean that "gender" is anything other than a social construct. It doesn't mean that "gender" is real - it's something man-made, gender roles are socially constructed. Or human-made, I should say (but let's face it, historically, that's men.

You want to be progressive, to be yourself, expand the "bandwidth" of maleness and make it acceptable for men to present as female.

Bespin · 20/08/2019 23:38

littlbrowndog

it's bedtime anyway, but thank you for considering that. I would never come on here if anything that was said upset me in any way. life is too sort for that.

PencilsInSpace · 20/08/2019 23:43

the reason I feel that my gender is importent to me is that it does not match my sex as yours probably does.

I don't know what you mean by 'gender' in this sentence. I don't have anything called 'gender' that matches my sex, or that could potentially not match my sex. I don't know what 'gender' is in your terms.

I experience 'gender' as a set of methods for keeping women and girls at the bottom of a hierarchy which has men at the top. Gender doesn't 'match' anything, for anybody really, it's a tool of oppression against women and girls. Sex is why, gender is how.

I'm just a woman because I'm female, grown up (ostensibly) and human. What else is there?

Sow
Cow
Hen
Mare
Queen
Doe
Vixen
Ewe
Woman

To be a woman is to be an adult female of the species homo sapiens, no different in terms of sex than any other mammal on this list. Why is woman so heavily contested out of all the words for adult female mammals?

Why are we not allowed a word for who we are?

zebrasdontwearbras · 20/08/2019 23:44

Maybe stop joshing around with Andrew Chu and Joss Prior on twitter if you want us to sympathise with your gender dysphoria here, bespin. Or nc for anonymity. Because, you know...sometimes it feels like you want us to know what you're saying over there.

StopThePlanet · 20/08/2019 23:44

Detroit has left the bldg. Sad

We PM'd each other, she shared her email address and I just sat down to send her an email and poof! she's gone.

If anyone is in contact with her please PM me as she dereged before I had a chance to send her an email.

If she's lurking... Flowers