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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Transsexual women face erasure

999 replies

joannegosling2 · 16/08/2019 22:45

It's a fine state of affairs isn't it?

Please - before the administrators axe this post, at least hear me out.

August 2019 - Transsexual women (not the self ID-seeking transgender - I refer to those of us who surgically transition lock, stock and barrel under strict medical supervision but whose narratives have been appropriated by the TG activists and advertised as their own) now being clobbered by feminists, not only here but every where else on the internet too, whether it be on TGN or this new Spinster group I've heard about. I understand the voice of feminism on the latter has reached unseen heights of extremism.

In fact, if I may say, equally as extreme as the trans activists whom feminists have been resisting for quite some time now. But what a difference a week makes. It seems they are now mounting a full-on attack on their own allies - we transsexuals (who are no less
appalled by the behaviour of the transgenderists and feel equally threatened by them), suggesting we are exactly like those same people with no respect at all for women. AND IT IS CATCHING ON.

They insult us further by calling us men and insisting we submit to male pronouns and acknowledge the absurd assumption that we benefit from male privilege (whatever that is, I surely never realized there was any).

For the zillionth time WE are NOT the problem. This entire farce was started by the self ID demands of the TG crowd. It is true - and we recognise - that women are fighting for their rights as never before. But regrettably there are certain feminist agitators who now see this as a golden opportunity to rid the streets and social life of not only
cross-dressing men who seek to enter their spaces but transsexuals too. To this end they have petitioned MPs to scrap the Gender Recognition Act which affords some legal protection to us...which by happy coincidence (though for different reasons) is exactly what their enemies demand also.

So here the two opposing sides have found common ground, and the politicians, having had the wool pulled over their eyes by the TRAs using narratives stolen from us, are joyfully legislating to bring peace and harmony to our troubled society. Cross-dressers will have their self ID on condition they respect segregated spaces and women will be safe from men in their toilets. And we will all live happily ever after.

Not so for us transsexuals. Someone somewhere has decided that we must be the sacrificial lamb to enable this to happen. We must cease to exist as a group. And not existing together with self ID being in place means it will be deemed no longer appropriate to transition via surgical means. Consequently all such treatment, once tailored purely for he needs of transsexuals, will vanish forever.

I hear women repeat over and over that they were never consulted about 'old-school' transsexuals using their spaces like we have done for years. Since in all probability many of you here weren't even born when I had my operation some 30 years ago that would have been rather difficult. And besides I don't recall being consulted about these outrageous proposals to erase me and my compatriots from society. There are certain well-known individuals on social media claiming to be transsexual but who eagerly cow to feminist insistence that they be labelled men. If they are happy to be blokes, fine. But they
certainly do NOT speak for most of us. I will NOT degrade myself in that way just to please others - nor to seek validation.

Personally it matters little whether women accept me or not. They never did when I was trying my best to present myself in the male role either. That used to hurt me a lot. But now I've grown harder. If the feminists treat their allies worse than they do their enemies, then they do not deserve allies. Whilst still supporting women's concerns in general, transsexuals are also entitled to fight for their existence - especially in the face of so many seeking their total erasure.

I believe feminists have singled us out for one simple reason. Thanks to our years of serious and medicated transitioning (unlike the TG community) many of us pass so well women cannot tell should they brush by us in their toilets. (If you have they're most probably cross-dressers). This I feel is what irks them most as it makes it near impossible to keep us out. So the fewer transsexuals enabled to transition, the less will be in their spaces.

I refuse to pay atonement for the sins of transgender activists. I'm sorry but I just cannot accept that from now on we be barred from women's toilets and hospital wards. For I can tell you it will not stop there. Next it will be parks, libraries, shopping centres and schools -
indeed any place where there are children. Apartheid sound familiar?

So know this Mumsnetters. I shall go on using women's toilets as I've done for half my life now. Not because I'm some misogynistic, foul-mouthed lager-drinking bloke who seeks to undermine or abuse women as many feminists seem to relish believing these days, but to
quietly assert my right to exist; you see I do it in the context of the time when black people once sat at segregated lunch counters enduring terrible abuse and violence from bigots.

Feminists can so do their worst. We few transsexuals who are left have nothing to lose now.

OP posts:
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littlbrowndog · 17/08/2019 19:16

He is

SheWhoMustBeSilent · 17/08/2019 19:19

Oops!

where no women is censored

should be

"where no woman is censored"!

Creepster · 17/08/2019 19:49

On a side note I'm still fascinated by the fact that almost all of these plopping posters have ladies name + number(s) as their user name...is it some kind of code (or am I just hungover)...

I think they do it so they can tell their socks apart.

YobaOljazUwaque · 17/08/2019 19:53

@SheWhoMustBeSilent that isn't the case though is it. It's the situation that the TRA's want to bring about, that some police forces believe to be law, but it isn't actually law. The wool is being pulled over everyone's eyes but law is not made on the say-so of campaign groups.

Bubbletrouble43 · 17/08/2019 19:59

Sorry, I am notoriously slow at humour, were you joking when you said you were unaware of what male privilege is? You do know it exists, right? Genuine question.

Cascade220 · 17/08/2019 20:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SheWhoMustBeSilent · 17/08/2019 20:55

that isn't the case though is it. It's the situation that the TRA's want to bring about, that some police forces believe to be law, but it isn't actually law. The wool is being pulled over everyone's eyes but law is not made on the say-so of campaign groups.

Indeed, all these organisations have been inadvertently or deliberately misled by the Trans Lobby and are acting outside of current UK law.

PencilsInSpace · 17/08/2019 21:12

Of course the problem with the GRA is that it was dwindling into obsolescence as we got first, equal marriage, then the GDPR, then finally equal pension age. All documentation except for birth certificate can be changed without a GRC and the single sex exceptions in the EA can be used whether a tw has a GRC or not.

I don't believe the majority of women were ever OK with the GRA as such - they just didn't know about it because it didn't affect them very much. The numbers were tiny, nobody cared who individuals chose to marry and most decent sorts weren't going to quibble as 'Tax Payers' over a few years of pension entitlement for a few thousand people.

The GRA would have continued to not be an issue if it had been allowed to gracefully slide into obscurity as a law that was no longer needed, that fewer and fewer people bothered with.

Instead the TRAs have decided to repurpose the GRA for a much larger, different group of people.

And so women have started to notice the GRA because their attention has been drawn to it by all the TRA campaigning and more and more women are saying, 'hang they fuck on, they can do WHAT??!?'

And women can see that there is no longer any good reason for continuing with this charade. just a few very bad reasons which harm us.

PencilsInSpace · 17/08/2019 21:14

SpartacusAutisticus I know Goodwin was central to the GRA, was it also responsible for surgery on the NHS or was that a different case?

Cascade220 · 17/08/2019 21:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Cascade220 · 17/08/2019 21:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Cascade220 · 17/08/2019 21:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PencilsInSpace · 17/08/2019 21:22

Thanks, off to read ...

AyeRobot · 17/08/2019 21:28

It's worth reading Goodwin v UK (link never works when I try to post it- just Google)

whateverhappenstheremore · 17/08/2019 21:48

I agree with this to some extent. The actions of TRAs have lead to people like me who were never bothered about the previous situation to become staunch supporters of GC feminists and unfortunately people like OP are being caught up in the mix. That said if genuine post op transgender people started to shout a little louder about how you are being caught up in a movement of people who effectively are still male bodied but insist wearing a dress makes them women you would get more support from the feminists to protect your rights. But I don't see that happening

WrathoSWhlttIeKIop · 17/08/2019 22:12

And so women have started to notice the GRA because their attention has been drawn to it by all the TRA campaigning and more and more women are saying, 'hang they fuck on, they can do WHAT??!?'

And TRA's telling women to shut the fuck up.
And TRA's silencing of academics.
And TRA's dominating Twatter by blocking women's voices.
And then the safeguarding issues, sterilising children.
Women and girls in sport.

And so the list goes on.

Yeah, women have woken up.

SheWhoMustBeSilent · 17/08/2019 22:28

Another salient case was: Corbett V Corbett in which Justice Ormrod determined that human sex is defined by a congruence of chromosomes, gonads and genitals:

www.pfc.org.uk/caselaw/Corbett%20v%20Corbett.pdf

SheWhoMustBeSilent · 17/08/2019 22:39

Further to Corbett V Corbett, two other cases are pertinent when it comes to defining sex in relation to those who claim to be the opposite sex:

this case determined that the legal comparator is that of the person's natural sex:

from 2003: www.casemine.com/judgement/uk/5b46f1fa2c94e0775e7ef4e3 [paras 70 onward]

and subsequently relied upon in a second case from 2013:

www.casemine.com/judgement/uk/5a8ff7bb60d03e7f57eb1a1f [paras 63 - 68]

So, the Trans Lobby has no knowledge of UK law and is misrepresenting the legal position to all of our public institutions.

Further, the Trans Lobby has no understanding of the GRA 2004 or the Equality Act 2010 and is misrepresenting UK law to all our public institutions.

Our politicians [aka law-makers] are useless! You would think they have knowledge of laws created ... they don't!

SheWhoMustBeSilent · 17/08/2019 22:45

It also needs to be said that UK law contains no provision for children, since the GRA 2004 applies only to those over 18 years.

No child [a person aged under 18 years] has protection via "gender reassignment" in UK law. [No child is deemed to be able to be "transsexual."]

The Trans Lobby is misrepresenting UK law to all public institutions that provide services for people aged under 18 years.

IMissGluten · 18/08/2019 00:03

My mum tried to wean me on Weetabix. She says I flat refused, and spent the next year of my life subsisting solely on Rice Krispies, bread and butter, and decreasing quantities of breastmilk.

Even as a tiny pre-verbal infant I knew it was rank muck, so how are so many supposed adults so thoroughly taken in by its claims to be food?

JanesKettle · 18/08/2019 00:39

I don't feel any more sympathy towards gender dysphoric people than I do towards people with any kind of distressing psychological condition.

It doesn't accrue to itself a special category of sympathy. Anyone who tries to tell me 'gender dysphoria is the most painful' hasn't spent much time with people with other, chronic, progressive mental health conditions.

Given that I am expected to treat a (clearly psychological) issue as a state of health and good adjustment - it's not a disorder! - I can't even muster the same sympathy as I feel for anorexics ( a deadly illness) or people with schizophrenia (a truly difficult and distressing disease).

In terms of my personal responsibility, the only thing I 'owe' the gender dysphoric person is help in challening restrictive gender norms. Are you an extremely feminine man ? Great. Are you an extremely masculine woman ? Fantastic. I will 100% back visibly gender non-conforming people who don't try to mind fuck me with nonsense like 'born in the wrong body'.

Dysphoria is a wish. A painful, distressing wish. A wish that can't ever come true. So what. Welcome to life. Do dysphoric males really think girls and women are living some unicorn life where all their wishes - some painful and distressing, as painful and distressing as dysphoria - come true ? Because we don't.

StrangeLookingParasite · 18/08/2019 04:45

acknowledge the absurd assumption that we benefit from male privilege (whatever that is, I surely never realized there was any).

Fish don't think about water, either.

VikVal · 18/08/2019 05:20

This thread gave me a headache...or I might be due on. It's a female thing. So yeah, male privilege and feminism and transgender yeah good stuff. Excuse me while I decide whether to put money on my electric key or go food shopping... definitely need paracetamol.

VikVal · 18/08/2019 05:23

@StrangeLookingParasite

Fish don't think about water, but the men in families struggling and the women having to support men who have found themselves out of work and can't get another job sure think about male privilege and when it's going to happen for them. May be they're the fish out of water, oh well, as long as we can massage our egos and continue with our crusades that's the main thing.

SophoclesTheFox · 18/08/2019 07:10

That’s very interesting about the case law, shewho

So in the early noughties, the direction of travel in the case law was towards defining dysphoria as an illness, in order to help trans people access more support/recognition of their circumstances etc. All very much reflecting the “old school” view of transsexualism as a distressing illness, people suffering from it requiring SRS and so on.

But since what, 2012 or so when the “self-ID, no need for dysphoria, its’s not a psychiatric issue” theme moved into the ascendence we have not actually seen any supporting case law moving in that direction, have we? So effectively, the legal position we are currently in, through legislation and precedent is exactly as it has been for the last fifteen years, no matter how much the activists are jumping up and down and telling us it’s not.

No wonder Mermaids et al are so mad keen to get some precedent setting cases up and running. They are entirely misrepresenting the legal position and desperately need the law to “catch up”.

Yeah, that’s not how that works, really.

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