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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Rachel McKinnon in the UK in October to lecture us on TW in sport!

113 replies

CloudRusting · 13/08/2019 10:03

Hmm

www.howtoacademy.com/events/transgender-athletes-and-the-science-of-fairness/?mc_cid=ad77a2171a&mc_eid=0ff868ffb0

From the listing:

Should trans athletes participate in women’s sport? Philosophy professor, activist and world champion cyclist Rachel McKinnon sifts science and ethics from politics and prejudice.

An issue with profound consequences for society’s ideas of fairness, gender, and equality, the participation of trans women in women’s competitive sports has made regular front page news.

Dr. Rachel McKinnon is at the forefront. As the first openly trans woman to win a world championship in an Olympic sport, she faces constant harassment and abuse on social media, while as an activist and public intellectual, her campaigns, papers, articles and interviews have done much to shift attitudes in the world of international sport and beyond.

In this talk, Dr. McKinnon will explore the ethics, law and science of fairness in sport, including whether biological restrictions such as testosterone limits violate principles of fairness and equality. Ahead of this autumn’s track racing world championship in Manchester, don’t miss this opportunity to hear from an internationally renowned athlete and scholar on how she is breaking down barriers and helping to overturn prejudice with science.

OP posts:
TheInebriati · 13/08/2019 11:16

I was just thinking of that when I saw the speech title.

Reasonable Assertions: On Norms of Assertion and Why You Don't Need to Know What You're Talking About
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20190616234302/uwspace.uwaterloo.ca/handle/10012/6619" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20190616234302/uwspace.uwaterloo.ca/handle/10012/6619

CuriousaboutSamphire · 13/08/2019 11:18

Yes, MsMc Cos RMckself is so proud of it they have made sure it is freely available

uwspace.uwaterloo.ca/handle/10012/6619

Most writers on the topic have consequently proposed factive norms of assertion – ones on which truth is a necessary condition for the proper performance of an assertion. However, I argue that this view is mistaken. = most people think that being truthful is essential if you are to be believed. I, however, disagree!

MsMcWibble · 13/08/2019 11:23

Thanks all. I tried to look it up but everything seemed to want me to sign in.
Writing to the venue now.

BruceAndNosh · 13/08/2019 11:29

done much to shift attitudes in the world of international sport and beyond
McKinnon has certainly shifted my attitude, but maybe not in the direction they would like

AnotherNightWatering · 13/08/2019 11:32

I've nothing against the venue holding this. I went to a talk by Rod Liddle on Freedom of Speech held by the How to Academy. (Got a v cheap ticket), in which he mentioned the trans issue and how they tried to shut down debate. Why get the venue to stop the talk? There won't be many people there, and those who do will be able to see for themselves.

MsMcWibble · 13/08/2019 11:43

I didn't ask them to stop the talk. I agree with you. I just asked that they included someone to put the opposing view.

Needmoresleep · 13/08/2019 11:50

I would disagree strongly with the idea of trying to stop McKinnon speak.
Democracy relies on open debate. Women have been silenced. Lets fight against that. It should soon become clear that we have the better arguments.

AnotherNightWatering · 13/08/2019 12:11

I just asked that they included someone to put the opposing view.
The talk I went to didn't put an opposing view during the talk. The host (Liddle) asked up two or three (?) pre-arranged guests to support his opinion. At the end, there was a session of questions from the audience. That is perhaps the formula for the series of talks.

truthisarevolutionaryact · 13/08/2019 12:20

I think it's wrong to challenge McKinnon's right to speak. That is what McKinnon and her ilk do to to women - challenge our right to a voice, to a presence, to have an opinion. It's the threats and violence and picketing and #nodebate that have led people to see what a fraud the whole thing is, only held up by an artifice of coercive control and bullying.
Let McKinnon speak (and maybe repeat their charming "die in a grease fire" threat to women) while we challenge the lies and misinformation in the way we have been doing - with facts, opinions and with our voices.

TimeLady · 13/08/2019 12:21

I hope Sharron Davis, Daley Thompson et al have booked front row seats. Grin

Let McKinnon try and persuade us to come round to their POV....the GC side has nothing to be afraid of by letting them speak.

TurboTeddy · 13/08/2019 12:22

I think RM has simply hired the venue to host the event, I'm not aware that the venue has any say in the speakers or the content.

I also feel quite strongly that the venue should not be pressured about hosting the event, those are TRA tactics and we are better than that.

We are already unfairly portrayed as aggressors (despite all evidence to the contrary), why provide ammunition for further accusations.

AnotherNightWatering · 13/08/2019 12:25

She's been asked to speak by
www.howtoacademy.com/

They hire different venues. Not that many people attend.

AnotherNightWatering · 13/08/2019 12:26

When I say RM's been asked to speak, she might have suggested it Smile

CuriousaboutSamphire · 13/08/2019 12:38

Ach! I'm too far away. Or I would go, with a prearranged question.

Such talks don't need closing down, they need to be celebrated, with tricksy questions about biology! Prefereably by those of us with academic knowledge, elite sporting experience etc.

If one comes close enough I shall dust of my academic qualifications and I bloody well will ask such questions!

I have ahd perty much enough and am, slowly, getting louder in my GCnes!

TurboTeddy · 13/08/2019 12:43

AnotherNightWatering
Thanks for clarifying.

Sicario · 13/08/2019 12:59

So I wonder if McKinnon will be pulled over at the border for inciting hatred in view of the multiple threats and vile comments aimed at women.

LizzieSiddal · 13/08/2019 13:24

I hope no one turns up.

allmywhat · 13/08/2019 13:36

Can anyone think of a less appealing offer you've seen lately than paying 25 quid to hear Rachel McKinnon speak? I genuinely can't think of anything. I swear to God I'd rather get a Brazilian wax, and I am an utter wimp about pain.

Who is the target audience of this thing? I know it's London but 25 quid to hear a male person go delusionally on and on about how great and wonderful they are... if that's your thing I'm not judging Hmm but you can walk into any pub or office in the country and get hours and hours of it for free by just tilting your head to listen and occasionally issuing a polite smile.

GirlDownUnder · 13/08/2019 14:03

Uh oh

mobile.twitter.com/rachelvmckinnon/status/1161253932984950786

“I've heard that some transphobes might try to protest my London presentation...”

This is true when
heard = monitors MN
transphobes = anyone at all
protest = ask some pre-arranged questions
presentation = ‘On Norms of Assertion and Why You Don't Need to Know What You're Talking About’

FormerMediocreMale · 13/08/2019 14:05

Ooh great let people see how bat shit they are.

Hope plenty of strong GC voices in the audience Grin just seeing them on the stage will peak a fair few Grin

Needmoresleep · 13/08/2019 14:08

My observation is that How To Academy Talks often link with book promotions. Some can be very good.

It is not unusual for the organiser to get the size of venue wrong and for there to be quite a lot of late cheap/free tickets floating around.

Whatsnewpussyhat · 13/08/2019 14:10

In this talk, Dr. McKinnon will explore the ethics, law and science of fairness in sport, including whether biological restrictions such as testosterone limits violate principles of fairness and equality

The only thing that is unethical and violates the principles of fairness and equality is allowing males to compete against females in sports.

Lordamighty · 13/08/2019 14:12

Why do I think that RMcK would actually like some protestors to turn up? Total narcissism, I wouldn’t go even if I was given a free ticket, not worth the effort.

RoyalCorgi · 13/08/2019 14:28

Hope plenty of strong GC voices in the audience

No. Much better to stay away. McKinnon is a narcissist and people turning up to argue will just feed their fantasy of their own self-importance. (Remember when McKinnon got angry with Martina Navratilova for not knowing who they were?)

Nobody sensible is going to pay £25 to listen to a deluded nobody like McKinnon. You could get a decent two-course meal in Pizza Express for that or a Circle seat at a West End play. The best outcome we can hope for is that McKinnon delivers their misogynistic rants to a row of empty seats.

FannyCann · 13/08/2019 14:33

The science of fairness? Surely the whole point is that life is unfair and random - born tall? may be suited to basketball, flat racing jockey not so much.
Of course men stating they are women has nothing to do with random chances of fate and nothing to do with science either...

I did see a tweet some time ago when Rachel said they'd be competing in October. Tempted to go to that and boo as appropriate. Wink