Shocked by YHA transgender policy wording

[CliffsofMoherVisitor]

I think this is the first time I have posted in this section. I have quietly read the threads for months as a lurker and become increasingly horrified at the creeping intrusion of males into women's spaces/sports.

What's prompted me to post is stumbling on the YHA's transgender policy. As you may already know (and it has been discussed before here, it is no longer single-sex dormitories - males can self-id as females and sleep in the female dormitory and vice versa. Reading the policy, it sounds like the YHA are trying to do the right thing (they quote the gender reassignment parts of the Equality Act), but it feels like they simply haven't thought it through.

The self-ID part of the policy and all its implications is troubling - self-IDing adult males sleeping in the same room/bunk as female children for example - how do you safeguard against a predator simply lying about their identity? But the line in the policy that upset me most was in relation to the sex-specific exemptions in the Equality Act as follows:

"In certain circumstances we may choose to invoke these exemptions; however, this is not as a rule. An example of these circumstances is people who have been the victims of abuse. In such situations we would work with all parties to provide a solution while still ensuring access everyone has access to our services. We invite people who meet the above criteria to get in touch with us in advance; please contact our customer care department at [email protected]. Individual requests will be dealt with on a case by case basis. Please be aware that these requests can take up to 14 days to process."

Am I correct in my reading that a female victim of abuse has to not only reveal this to the YHA, but do so 14 days in advance of their stay to ensure a female-only space? What if a transgender person arrives without a booking on the day? Is a female meant to go to the desk of the Youth Hostel and reveal their traumatic history to the receptionist? Then the receptionist decides what to do? What if there is no other accommodation available? Some Youth Hostels are in remote places. I find this statement absolutely mind-boggling in its impracticality, and sheer disregard for the experiences of abused women.

I feel so sad, I such good experiences Youth Hostelling as a teenager and a young woman, and I always stayed in YHA due to feeling safer as a single female ("Backpacker" hostels were often mixed sex dormitories). I did this even though YHA was usually more expensive.

I have always had a soft spot for YHA and think (thought) that they did good work for example doing trips for inner city kids to get out and experience the countryside, do hiking etc and of course, allowing a cheap yet safe place for females to stay when travelling. Therefore, even though I am more a Premier Inn type these days, I have always maintained my YHA membership via yearly standing order to support them - going back over 20 years now.

I'm not against trans-gender people using YHA at all - with segregation by sex, not by gender "identity", as it was originally. Perhaps with the provision of a third space open to both sexes? ie Male, Female and Mixed.

So - I think I have to cancel my standing order :( Should I write and tell them why, or will they label any protest "transphobia"?

Link to current YHA policy

Caledonian Sleeper IIRC now has you book a whole cabin to yourself if you're travelling alone. So you can share with someone you know if you book together, or you can pay twice as much to travel alone because they won't step up and enforce single sex requirements and this is less hassle for them and they make the same amount of money.

The majority of women don’t even report abuse to the police, so they’re hardly likely to drop that info in a chatty email while booking accommodation.

Perhaps we shall all self ID as having been abused.

This is a direct result of the bullshit guidance published by the EHRC which says that the single sex exemptions should be applied on a "case by case" basis. This is not what the Eq Act actually says, and iirc when EHRC revised their guidance they didn't change this.

It is bad enough when "case by case" refers to the male bodied person seeking access to a female space, but yha are interpreting it to mean a woman seeking a single sex space can only be granted this oh so special privilege on a "case by case" basis.

I despair.

I'm not belittling your concerns but I don't think predatory males are going to be stalking the hostels of Britain pretending to be trans gender

It's interesting, isn't it, how some people seem to be utterly unaware of how predatory men operate? They seek out places where they will have access to vulnerable women and children. Being allowed to share sleeping spaces with such women and children is an absolute gift to predatory men, who are very, very patient in their predation.

Another woman could also be the perpetrator of course.

Yeah...

Caledonian Sleeper IIRC now has you book a whole cabin to yourself if you're travelling alone. So you can share with someone you know if you book together, or you can pay twice as much to travel alone because they won't step up and enforce single sex requirements and this is less hassle for them and they make the same amount of money.

Could this be pursued under EqA2010 as indirect discrimination under the protected characteristic of marriage and civil partnership, because single people are more like to face financial penalty under this policy (which permitting same sex strangers to share would avoid)?

I can't read the whole thread so don't know if this has already been said, but don't YHA have liability insurance, and have they cleared this with their insurance provider?
Hospitals and schools are having to pay out considerable sums to victims.

Is there a hierarchy of abuse? What’s the criteria? Does it need to be a gang rape? Will you take into account whether or not she was drinking and what she was wearing? Will her underwear be considered and will she be penalised if she knew her attacker?

From twitter

What if you're just a girl or woman who is frightened of sleeping in the same room as a man? Why isn't that a good enough reason?

Because them your choice is 'suck it up' or not go there, isn't it?

Why is that not being applied to the males who id as women, therefore? Their feelings entirely trump women's feelings and women's concern for their safety, apparently.

It’s just fucking ridiculous that’s what it is.

Some guy says he is a woman. Welcomed into the women’s dorms.
Now shut up women fuck your safety and the fact that you don’t want to share with some strange guy

Are they all off their heads ?

Some guy says he is a woman. Welcomed into the women’s dorms.

And that's it - that's all a man has to say.

Now shut up women fuck your safety and the fact that you don’t want to share with some strange guy - Quite!

If we wanted any more proof that the Stonewall lobby have captured - entirely captured - these organisations, this YHA debacle tells us everything we need to know.

Women. Don't. Matter. Women's/girls'. safety/privacy. Does. Not. Matter.

I found this thread via a twitter thread (recognised the screenshot). I couldn’t quite believe it was real. Dear god I slept in YHA dorms as a teenager (definitely no men) - there is no way I’d let a daughter that age (or any age tbh) trot off in the expectation of sleeping in a ‘womans’ dorm these days.

D'you know, this might be an unpublicised win for the GC campaign.

That would be great if it were so. I think where organisations change policy we should massively celebrate that and thank them for standing with women and girls which will inspire other organisations to see that they too will be appreciated for doing the same. Rather than them losing their female customer base.

And what is the point of having separate accommodation if not to divide by SEX.

Exactly. Unless the actual AIM is to drive women away and / or make life easy for predators.

The idea that predatory males won’t take advantage - mentioned upthread- is just naive at best. If you genuinely believe this then you really haven’t met a predatory male. Lucky you. They will go to huge lengths to get their kicks, enormous effort. And those kicks often involve women/girls and darkness. This is an absolute gift to them.

This is shocking! And deeply upsetting. I have two children with Sen and I’m now becoming even more concerned about their safety when I read utter shit like that policy. Predators will find and exploit any loophole or gap to get what they want. Policies like this leave women and children massively vulnerable. But I suppose it would suggest I’m transphobic. That policy screams the feelings of transgender people and people who use self id to exploit are more important than the safety of women and children. How have such a minority managed to shove us back so far? I can’t see why they’d want to be women when this is the treatment will get.

to all those who have suffered abuse. I can’t imagine how awful this would be to disclose to a stranger.

YHA have responded on Twitter.

Its not a great....

"over recent days some people have expressed concern at the way those who want to stay with us can talk to us about their individual circumstances. We have heard these concerns and are reviewing our practice. We will be reviewing the way people can talk to us about their booking...."

My response:

Thank you for responding. Just to be clear. The concern is not about how individuals can talk to you. It is: why not just do what the EqA allows: offer single sex accommodation. There is no need to ask anyone to justify why they don't want to bunk w members of the opposite sex

oops sorry. wrong picture!

So the NSPCC has their ‘pants’ campaign about safeguarding for children. But at the same time, the guidance that YHA has received is that girls should push all those feelings to one side and accept having to sleep in accommodation next to a man, even if it makes her feel uncomfortable.

Single sex accommodation is not meant to be 'inclusive' - that's the entire point of it.

Women and girls shouldn't have to 'talk to them' to be assured of single sex accommodation.

If there are males who don't want to be in the male accommodation, then the YHA needs to find some other solution. Sharing a room if they're part of a group booking might be ok, otherwise I guess they'd have to be allowed a room to themselves.

Yes. you are allowed to shared a mixed sex room for a group booking anyway.

It would be perfectly possible for someone who does not want to be in a single sex dorm of their own sex to have a room to themselves.

Single sex accommodation is not meant to be 'inclusive'

But it can and should be. Male accommodation should be inclusive of all males, including those who identify as women or non-binary.

Female accommodation should, likewise, be inclusive of all females, including those who identify as men or non-binary.

Can anyone link to the relevant thread on Twitter or what hashtag is being used?

twitter.com/HJJoyceEcon/status/1160951503709966340?s=19