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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Expelled from Girlguiding for putting safeguarding first

369 replies

KatieAlcock · 04/08/2019 07:04

Many of you will remember that Helen Watts and another Guider were expelled from Girlguiding last year. This was me - in Sept 2018 I had my membership of Guiding withdrawn for social media breaches (one FB post in a small private group) and refusing to follow Girlguiding policies on transgender members (saying I'd put safeguarding first, ahead of any policies).
I'm a longstanding Guider and Mumsnetter (naice ham, cancel the cheque, show us the diagram) but I'm anonymous for obvious reasons, generally. I'm coming out now to tell you this story.

I appealed and the former Chief Guide who held the appeal concluded that I had not breached social media guidelines (I should jolly well hope not given that 9 people saw my post!) but that I was still refusing to follow GG policy (I gave the same statement - safeguarding comes first).

My story is in the Mail on Sunday today (if this link doesn't work I'll put a clicky link in the next post).

Mail on Sunday link

I am taking GG to court on the grounds that they have discriminated against me because of my gender critical beliefs by investigating my actions when other Guiders who complain about things are not investigated.
I am asking them for a small amount in damages because though I have not lost any income, I have lost reputation and the investigation was stressful, as you can understand.
And I've asked to be reinstated, and for a full apology and statement that I did nothing wrong.

PS... I spent an hour with their professional photographer telling me "don't smile" and they go with the photo from camp with a big grin on my face, taken by my Guide??!

[Post edited by MNHQ]

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KatieAlcock · 15/08/2019 21:10

I'm having A Bad Day.
There are things going on behind the scenes but I can't talk about them. Those aren't the bad things though (or at least it's too early to say).
I will say though, as this is public info, that the solicitors firm are all complete stars.

Tell me something funny instead, about your little Rainbows and Brownies and Guides, about feminism, about your mad family...
Anything really!

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boatyardblues · 15/08/2019 21:20

My son tried a new curry tonight and liked it. I don’t know if that counts as cheering news. After 3 years in a chicken korma rut, I’m counting it as a breakthrough.

Sorry to hear things are shit, Katie. Nolite Te Bastardes Carborundorum, as the saying goes. Flowers

KatieAlcock · 15/08/2019 21:23

That is cheering! My DCs are a bit small to inflict spicy curries on (yes yes, I know, if they were Indian, etc etc, but I think I forgot to add chilli to their baby porridge).

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birdsdestiny · 15/08/2019 21:29

My boys managed a whole day outing with no bickering today which is enough to make me smile Grin. We stand with you Katie if it's any help. Flowers

Ali1cedowntherabbithole · 15/08/2019 21:34

Sorry you've had a rubbish day Katie Thanks

I like to wander over to nature lovers on twitter when I need distraction. There's usually something to make me smile.

KatieAlcock · 15/08/2019 22:09

Now I do like to look at Kate Long's vole pictures.

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LangCleg · 15/08/2019 22:27

Aww, Katie, I hope tomorrow is better.

My good news is slightly niche: I found a nice man prepared to fix our local community centre's broken loop system FOR FREE! (This is good because the centre is broke having lost all funding under austerity.)

MrsSnippyPants · 15/08/2019 22:28

Ah Katie, sorry you have had a crap day. Nothing to tell you about rainbows or brownies, how about beavers? Grin

Expelled from Girlguiding for putting safeguarding first
Mamello · 15/08/2019 22:38

Sorry to hear it's been a bad day Katie. I talked to a lot of people about what young kids need today and they all got it. I know sometimes it seems that noone really cares anymore but they do and fundamentally people know what is right and sensible (even if they don't always do it). So keep up with the fight. There is more support out there than you realise.

2BthatUnnoticed · 15/08/2019 22:50

Aw sorry to hear you’ve had a bad day. My 4yo has just rather solemnly told me that he “doesn’t want me to die and go to heaven.”

Why not? Because he loves me or would miss me etc? No - “because Nana doesn’t make porridge as good as you!” Priorities!

(I’m not ill or anything - my sister’s dog died recently, first time he’s dealt with it - she was very old and had a great life - gosh I’m not sure if this is a cheery tale after all!)

Flowers
littlbrowndog · 15/08/2019 22:52

Katie. 🥰😍 you are marvellous

One of by boys tried a French bean today and liked. Small things small victories

KatieAlcock · 15/08/2019 22:53

Nice, err, beaver!
Blush

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LizziesTwin · 16/08/2019 06:27

Sorry to read this Katie, hope Friday will be better. Some beautiful flowers for you.

Expelled from Girlguiding for putting safeguarding first
blahblahblahblahhh · 16/08/2019 06:48

I also find it sad that no one now is allowed to hold a belief of their own. Just seen in the news that the "gay cake refusal" story is going to court again.
People are allowed to have their own beliefs.

ThinkWittyThoughts · 16/08/2019 08:45

I did the thing that must not be named.

Chin up Katie - it's worth the fight.

KatieAlcock · 16/08/2019 09:40

Beautiful flowers! And some unexpected emails and messages of support today as well.

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redexpat · 17/08/2019 06:45

Im a guide leader in Denmark. At Wednesdays meeting we attempted highland games which included tossing the caber, stone put and a bit of country dancing which led to, well, chaos.

Family scouts starts next weekend for 2-6 yo. Dd4 is very very excited.

MereMinion · 17/08/2019 10:07

Ooh I've had my first "you're a danger to children".

This is just appalling. So glad I've had the chance to contribute to your fight 'cos this shit needs to be challenged. The gall to say that to you!😡

GrandmaSteglitszch · 18/08/2019 04:27

8,180 with 15 days to go.
Numbers can be quite interesting.

AutumnCrow · 18/08/2019 21:06

I love a nice number.

pimmsnlemonade · 29/08/2019 22:07

Bumping the thread as the thing-we-are-not-allowed-to-link-to ends soon. Maybe, as well as donating, posters could share this thing in other places where we are allowed to share such things?

KatieAlcock · 29/08/2019 22:10

Please do share lots and lots.
As before, there is a lot of secret or at least silent beavering away.
The fundraiser will roll over when the time is up because we made the initial total but there's still a long way to go.

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KatieAlcock · 29/08/2019 22:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KatieAlcock · 30/08/2019 18:11

I've been sent this which very very obliquely refers to the case. They wouldn't want to give me any publicity now would they.
woodcraft.org.uk/news/letter-support-trans-inclusion
PS 9000 is indeed a lovely number.

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popehilarious · 30/08/2019 18:47

"There is no evidence that trans children, young people or volunteers present any greater safeguarding risk than their cis peers."
We know. We know we know we know we KNOW; this is NOT what we're saying and you either know it and are lying or are NOT LISTENING.

It is the class of biological sex, not the self-imposed label of 'trans' or 'cis', that has the massive, massive differentials in terms of risk. And biological sex CANNOT CHANGE.