"An open wound...": horrific detransitioner story

[Lamahaha]

No words for this. A 16 year old coerced into going the whole way up to genital surgery.
The result is heartbreaking.

sexchangeregret.com/27-year-old-man-regrets-having-surgery/?fbclid=IwAR2tl9j0hCdvvvkIBcvZjEAdrw28fUeKdv_-PsGSi1dqxZ0nh1DkBSWXgTo

WARNING: very graphic quote. If you think it's TOO graphic I'll report it. Not sure about MN rules. But I think we need to see this up front. Especially lurkers on the fence.

I tried to have sex with a man 8 months after my bottom surgery and I felt disgusted with myself for having him penetrate a pool of bacteria. Blood came out of the cavity during penetration and I could see he was uncomfortable with the looks of the vulva and with the feeling of the vagina on his penis.

He knew I was trans, I told him, but he had never dated a trans woman before.

I was diagnosed with bacterial vaginosis around 1 year post op. The vaginal cavity was full of unhealthy bacteria, despite me douching with isobetadine regularly.

At this point it became very clear to me that what I have between my legs is nothing more than a surgically created wound.

I honestly don’t understand how this surgery is even legal. It butchers a healthy body and comes with life threatening side effects.

Cabbage you make assumptions that post op TW feel nothing from penetration.

User148 etc, I don't understand your message. 'what if it was you' - well, exactly! One of the feelings reading this post is the horror of going through what this person has gone through. I've tried to imagine the feelings that led them to this point and it's hard to do that. Most of us are posting from a sense of 'what if it were us' or 'what if it were my son or my brother' or any other male person we know. What do you mean?

As for 'it's not about people's morals' - well I'm definitely questioning not just the morals but the professional judgment of the doctors involved; many of us are questioning the morals of the older person who appears to have groomed this adolescent boy away from his family and at some point to have abandoned him. Don't you have any thoughts about the morals of that person?

Not RTFT; just heartbreaking.

Fieldofgreycorn

Cabbage you make assumptions that post op TW feel nothing from penetration

So explain this to me then. In the article in the OP, the post op TW writes this:

I have almost no sex drive. I lost a lot of feeling in my genitalia after the procedure

Explain to me, in medical terms, how this post op TW, or any other for that matter, receives pleasure from being penetrated in their skin hole. Not feeling, I want to know how they get pleasure from it.

)And this only applies to those who’ve been through puberty. Those who were no puberty blockers have no hope).

I was under the impression that in some cases a neovagina retains enough sensation that it can be sexually arousing. If it's lined with the inverted penis, I guess that could make sense.

In any case though, I think sex can be a little more complex than just what feels good where. There are women who lose sensation in their vagina but still enjoy having sex. I am guessing the big shock is that it doesn't really work that well, may be actually painful, and the loss of libido.

I think they take the glans of the penis and form it into a nub where the clitoris would be. Clearly, without testes the orgasm isn't going to be as strong as it would have been pre surgery, and as we know the clitoris is a much bigger organ than the protruding part, so whatever orgasmic feeling a man will be left with will be NOTHING like a woman's. But he could retain some arousal.
This wouldn't be from penetration however. It's pretty unlikely that the inverted penile skin would have any sexual sensation from being rubbed, since it's no longer attached to the rest of the penis.

I am guessing the big shock is that it doesn't really work that well, may be actually painful, and the loss of libido

But it shouldn’t be a big shock. They’re taking a functioning organ that is responsive to sexual stimulation and surgically altering it. Of course it’s not going to work as well. This comes down to a question of consent. Are victims patients told this? What stats are the given?

And regardless of how they try and make it sexually responsive, with retention of the glans etc, it still doesn’t explain why the need for a receptive hole that may or may not have some form of sexual response.

the original post is so so sad, it is terrible when this happens and it does happen far to frequently I'm afraid I have met and helped people who have had simular and it is so so hard to deal with, our community often helps people when this happens and this responce is a comman reaction to think why. this used to happen a lot more and things have come a long way but this is not something without risk no one should ever say it is.

Bespin, thank you. Things clearly can and do go wrong. There are far more risks, whether hormones or surgery, than the cheerful trans influencers on You Tube admit to. Or perhaps more than narratives used by the Webberleys or Mermaids.

Which is why informed consent is crucial. And why we need proper debate and research on what that informed consent entails. Young trans people need to be protected every bit as much as straight or gay youth. Vulnerable young people even more.

Some late night reading suggesting solutions when surgery goes wrong. Worth remembering that the initial surgery was on a healthy person.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-7032557/amp/Trans-woman-35-world-vagina-FISH-SKIN.html

that is true they do need support and protection to understand this and look at there options and understand the risks. reducing lgbt education in schools and having massive waiting lists does not help that. I dislike people glamourising being trans and down playing the risks around treatment. just like when people do it with breast implants. these decisions are life changing and should never be taken lightly.

But I think this sort of evidence is a bloody good reason for delaying any sort of treatment that involves surgery on a young person, Bespin.

What do you think?

reducing lgbt education in schools and having massive waiting lists does not help that

Stonewall, Gendered Intelligence and Mermaids don’t want children to be educated, they want them to be indoctrinated. It’s considered “transphobic” to show realistic pictures of surgery. Twee language like “top surgery” (bilateral mastectomy) and “bottom surgery” (mutilation of genitalia) is used. As pointed out in Biggs’ report, the word “orgasm” is never used in medical consent, let alone so called “education” on LGBT issues. Detransitioners are silenced, their voices aren’t heard in school “education” because it doesn’t fit the narrative. And just how shortening the waiting times so people can be mutilated quicker would solve the problem.

I’m sure I read that some surgeons do offer a “vulva” only service whereby they just create the external appearance of female sex organs but don’t try to create a neo-vagina.

For some, I suspect the act of being penetrated would be incredibly affirming and quite possibly a reasonable trade off for actual sexual pleasure, but that is conjecture (coupled with bits and pieces I’ve read here and there).

PurpleCrowbar

I think that surgery in this country happens usually well after 18 with the current waiting lists, anyone who wants to rush in under at least a year I always advise that they slow down or wait a little for there heads to catch up with them. young people need support and that is better in real life not on the Internet. Well run groups do help young trans people they do not indoctrinate them but hopefully give them the realities to help them find the right path for themselves.

CantspellWontspell

a number of trans woman opt for this option due to a number do of reasons. medical health, recovery time, sexual partners. maintenance in future and risks.

Bespin, where are you on the Mermaids 'better a trans child than a dead child' approach?

I personally find the idea of setting a pre-pubertal child off on blockers then cross sex hormones, horrific. Surgery is also risky but only one element. Without a brain that has gone through puberty how can someone ever give informed consent.

I also worry about the lack of gatekeeping, and the apparent high levels of co-morbidities such as autism or abuse.

We must protect the young.

Susie Green will always be that woman who laughed about the size of her child's undeveloped penis. She should not be leading on education in schools, nor on support for families. And as for the Webberleys, they should not be near patients of any kind.

I would always say better a live child than a dead one. and that does mean that some young people are trans not becuse they suffered trauma or have asd but becuse they are trans not every young person needs transition and we Need to support that but they may do. mermaids works with mostly the ones that do need to and is less helpful with the ones who don't. I think there needs to be more support for the ones who don't know who's families are not supporting or that will work it out later. I like susie she gets painted very badly on here by people who have never meet her or talked to her or still think her child is a little girl.

the webbleys I find are profeting off us as so many people have done in the past there should be no need for them.

the number of young people that suffer complex ptsd in this country is a scandle and we are doing nothing about it, I see dispear that somewhere like mumsnet is not doing more to push for greater children's mental health but instead is fighting to close the GRC for young people.

I don't think Susie Green's adult offspring is 'a little girl'. Or ever was.

I don't think children will get anywhere close to the right guidance and support until this affirmation policy is dropped. It's absolutely crazy.

PurpleCrowbar

there's no real need for such a comment is there.

But it shouldn’t be a big shock. They’re taking a functioning organ that is responsive to sexual stimulation and surgically altering it. Of course it’s not going to work as well. This comes down to a question of consent. Are victims patients told this? What stats are the given?

I really don't know with regard to the stats. I will say that I find that even when something seems like it should be obvious, or a real possibility, I am often startled by the degree to which people don't seem to make the connection.
With medical things in particular many people seem to just go along with whatever seems to be the expected progression.

not afferming young trans people does not stop them existing. Harry Benjamin discussed trans children in the 1960s. I honestly don't know the answer I feel it's in the middle somewhere.

What women actually oppose is sterilising NGC people when they are children, and removing their chances to have a full sex life as an adult.

I'm surprised that someone who claims to work in the field doesn't know the law in the UK. Only adults can change their legal sex. Thats got nothing to do with the influence of women on Mumsnet, however few of us there are.

Bespin your earlier post concerns me, too.

You seem a bit hand wavey about teenagers of younger children seeking early transition.

Firstly, there are long waiting lists so they can't, you say - but that isn't a managed reflection period, is it? It's being framed as a delay to a thing that should happen.

Secondly, you've got some guff about 'advising' children to wait. This doesn't reassure me as I don't - bluntly - feel confident that you are someone who should be having that interaction with children, given your problematic responses about your understanding of safeguarding.

I get the impression you are a well meaning person, but of course that's subjective. But at best you are over invested & horribly naive.