Engagement rings

[Yeahsurewhatever]

Light-hearted! but I'm just interested in your feelings on engagement rings? And if you didn't have one did you just have nothing? Or did you get each other something?

If we can put it aside from if you hate the institution of marriage anyway and I'm aware there's a ton of other sexist stuff within wedding traditions.
I just feel like getting an engagement ring feels a bit uncomfortable.

Why am I showing I'm 'claimed' - but he isn't.
Why is he paying out for something when everything else in our relationship is equal.
I also HATE the idea of people asking to see my ring and then judging my relationship, how loved I am, how much money my partner makes by how big the rock is.
Or even just celebrating how I've managed to get engaged, in a way non of my other achievements have been!

I mean, I dunno why this is my sticking point, I just feel a bit uncomfortable with it.

But equally, it's part of a ritual that is nice and bonding between partners, and officially sets us on a wedding planning oath etc. Plus who doesn't want a pretty gift...

I personally love having a ring on. First of all I love looking at it, secondly I love that say at work or on night out, by touching my face with my left hand, it lets guys know I'm not available, it’s up to them then whether they want to actually chat or just run away and try someone else.

I don't worry about this kind of thing. Given that it is a fairly recent tradition you can have whatever meaning you want, it doesn't need to show you are owned. I think the main reason men don't wear them is that in the 20th century men haven't usually worn fancier jewellery.

You could always look at it as a sort of insurance, where your husband is giving you something you can sell for ready cash if he turns out to be a dud and you have to leave him.

I don't have one, because I don't like to wear that sort of ring. My husband bought me a goat instead. We do have wedding rings, which are identical, but mine doesn't fit well and I still don't like the feel of it though it's plain. Dh wears his, but he is much more sentimental than I am.

But if I did like them, I think it would be a nice thing to mark something as important as a marriage.

I've lost my engagement ring and TWO wedding rings (I took them off for the gym as they ripped my hands open, fairly sure my engagement ring was stolen, the other two...I don't know, I'm a mess) so now I don't wear any and men react with genuine anger when they find out I'm married. How dare I be married and not marked as such. It's really put me off the whole thing.

Actually the idea of an engagement ring as ‘claiming ownership’ is incorrect. Historically, a man gave a woman his ring as proof of his promise and intention to marry her, as a legal contract. So if he tried to back out she and her family could hold him to his promise.
Diamond engagement rings were always a thing for the rich but we’re made popular for the middle classes during the Victorian era.
I personally love my engagement ring, but they’re not for everyone. Not everyone likes or wears jewellery. Mine’s a sapphire with a halo of diamonds and is a family heirloom from my husband’s grandmother. My aunt sneered when I told her it was a family heirloom! I never asked her why she sneered because I didn’t care. I think she thought it was ‘traditional’ in a misogynistic sense or maybe that he was a tight ass for it buying one himself. Idk, I like it, and I like more that my husband and his family entrusted me with such a special piece of their family history. I felt welcomed by them, and very much put out by my own aunt, a self proclaimed ‘non-judgmental good person’. She wears only a gold wedding band as she finds diamonds gaudy, and that’s cool - each to their own! My mum has 7 sisters and none were given diamond engagement rings, for various reasons - being young and broke, having children before getting married, or to make a statement. Whatever personal choice and circumstances dictate!

The wedding ring as a sign of "I'm taken" works for men too.
Ever seen those sleazy guys who not-so-subtly hide their wedding ring while trying to hit on you?
DH likes to wear his as he says it's a signal he's off the market.
I have known a few couples wear the guy has stopped wearing his ring for seemingly legit reasons - work or gym, but have then gone on to cheat.
They aren't just a sign of ownership of women.

I love having an engagement ring. I don't see it as broadcasting my status - and definitely nothing to do with ownership! He didn't buy me, he asked me to get married. Everyone who sees my ring will assume I consented to putting it on. I just really like having a physical, tangible symbol of our commitment and intention to get married. And I also am happy for other people to infer that I am going to get married.

Completely agree that the 2 or 3 times the salary is absurd. As long as you like the ring it should not at all matter what it cost, and it's sad that some people judge your relationship based on how much it cost.

My husband bought me a ring. I bought him a watch. We bought them together and have never spent that kind of money on a gift for each other since so they're special for that reason - a memory of life before kids were bleeding us dry! We were happy to be setting up a life together and those gifts marked the moment when that decision was made. I'm ok with that so maybe we pick and choose (and interpret and re-interpret) traditions in different ways. I wouldn't have changed my name for love nor money (nor a ring!)

I've a ring of my mum's that always makes me think of her when I wear it. The ring my husband gave me holds a similar value for me.

I had a £40 engagement ring from tatty divine. Could give a shit about how others perceived it, I'm 100% dhs equal and he would snort with laughter at the concept of owning me.
I also couldn't care less about folk looking at it and having an opinion about its value!!

*couldn't give a shit!

If you were ever to have the surname discussion again, @stealthbanana, it's actually traditional for a child to have the mother's surname, not the father's. It's just that in traditional times, if you were married, you would have taken your husband's name . . . #littleKnownFact.

@goosefoot I can say my ring is not about ownership or being marked, but in reality, I think demonstrated by all the women who use their ring to get rid of men, in society that's exactly what it says. I think I'm uncomfortable with the downpayment in case he's a dud just as much, if not more. I do just fine on my own!

I've heard similar theories about it being so that if you couldn't wait till the wedding night, but then he ran off, you had a diamond at least to pawn so you weren't ruined, because obviously no one else would want you now

@stealthbanana wow yes!, I've discussed this with a few people and women are often very defensive
And men want to slap my partner on the back for a job well done keeping his money away from a golddigging woman

@deydododatdodontdeydo no but both parties have a wedding ring. Both parties don't traditionally have an engagement ring.

I feel that it's too late on the ms front - will encourage my daughter's from 17/18 to switch to ms! I may still trial it for myself..What a ridiculous system, I had never thought of it as broadcasting my marital status before even my name before this thread

I will also take his name (I am keen to get rid of mine more than anything)

So the ring just feels again like another step into the traditionalism that I don't think is for me! But I like the idea of the art work instead. Something to commemorate at least

I personally think if you’re doing a white wedding with dress, flowers and cake etc, the ship has sailed on patriarchal symbols so you might as well get the engagement ring too (note I don’t think that about marriage in general, it’s a useful legal protection. And I had a white wedding myself, so nothing wrong with choosing to accept a few symbols if you’re clear that is what you are doing).

We got an antique ring because DH (rightly) has issues with the diamond trade, we paid for it out of the joint account/wedding budget, and we certainly didn’t spend 2-3 months salary on it (maybe 30% of one month’s salary?). I don't wear any other jewellery except my wedding ring, so it is nice to have something sparkly.

I didn’t get an engagement ring. I don’t really wear jewelry anyway, I can appreciate some custom stuff with some real artistry behind it, but a) that’s expensive and b) I don’t think I’ve ever seen a ring I could wear every day done that way. The idea of a cheap ring or spending a lot of money on a ring seemed a total waste or like utter folly. I also have an intense dislike of the whole precious stone industry.

A man with those sorts of priorities (when we didn’t have a house or decent cars or the like) would not have appealed to me anyway and once I was at the stage of life where there was the disposable income for an expensive jewelry I would still have found it odd to prioritize that over a holiday. Also, as you say, why would I have a ring to wear and him not? Why would I expect him to shell out money on me when I’m not shelling out money on him and why would I want to broadcast my “taken” status but him not? It all seems bizarre in an age when I can earn my own money, choose whether to marry and live my life the same way a bloke can.

Most of my friends find it endearing that their fiancé would spend a lot of money on them on something that was entirely for them - it’s symbolic, I think. But I just don’t want that sort of imbalance from a life partner.

I don’t think it makes any difference though, in the long run. I know people with single solitaire diamond engagement rings worth 3 times their fiancé’s monthly salary who have stayed together for decades and ones who have broken up within 18 months and the same goes for those who swapped engagement gifts of equal value or got married in Vegas on impulse. I don’t think falling into social conventions is actually a big issue at the individual level. It’s respect for each other that makes the real difference and you can have an engagement ring or balk at them and still have a respectful relationship.

@boomboomscousin well said!

I love jewels. Wear lots. Some very blingy, especially the replacement for my cheap engagement ring that got stolen.
I've bought my husband some very expensive presents too.
Nobody thinks I'm owned. Everyone knows I take no shit.

I can say my ring is not about ownership or being marked, but in reality, I think demonstrated by all the women who use their ring to get rid of men, in society that's exactly what it says. I think I'm uncomfortable with the downpayment in case he's a dud just as much, if not more. I do just fine on my own!

I think you are making a significant leap around what men think. Far more likely they see a wedding ring and think, not much point hitting on her, as she is committed to someone else and it would be a waste of time. Or, I'm not going to hit on her because I respect that she's made a commitment to marriage.

When you see a married man, with a ring, do you avoid hitting on him because you think he is owned? If your fiancé sees a married women with a ring, is his first thought that she is off limits because she is owned.

Commitment, a vow, is a thing that doesn't have to be attached to ownership for people to respect it. TBH I think that most people that don't respect the one are unlikely to respect the other, either.

As far as taking care of yourself, I am sure you can. But if you want to think about historical symbolism of an expensive gift from the groom to the bride, keep in mind that historically women have been vulnerable in marriage because they have children, and that some kind of financial pledge or gift from the groom, which belongs personally to the wife, is a protection for her. Recognising the impacts of female biology is not giving in to the patriarchy, any more than laws saying fathers have to help support their wives and kids after a divorce are.

Interesting spin @goosefoot
I don't completely agree with you
But my mum has always said, get the engagement ring! Let him pay for dates! You will more than pay him back delivering and caring for his children. And I suppose that's what you're saying to a degree! It's not an angle I'd seriously considered and I suppose that's coming from a place of privilege.
Great to get lots of perspectives!

Well, no, that's not what I am saying. It's nothing to do with being paid to have someone's children, or to have sex with them, or anything like that.

I mean that women have children, and until about 1960 often just as a matter of course unless they abstained from sex. That limits their options, whatever way you slice it.

In many cultures it's expected for a prospective husband to give the woman some kind of expensive gift or sum of money that is hers alone, usually to be put in savings in some way. In case of something going wrong in the marriage, or the death of the husband, or his financial ruin, that money is meant for her protection. Because she is likely to have fewer options than a man would to take care of herself and her kids.

If you view everything as a sort of payment for services rendered, than that is what everything will be, whether there is a ring or not.

That's not what I meant

Clearly not saying my mum is implying I should be paid for sex
Just similar to yourself in that women become financially vulnerable in relationships, it's ok to let him look after you/treat you - or as you said the engagement ring is a bit of insurance or a promise

I do not view everything that way and have said the opposite.

DH and I bought rings for each other when we got engaged.