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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

To those who visit the board and believe in gender identity, what is your solution?

442 replies

Doyoumind · 01/08/2019 13:21

I've been on Twitter again and seen another interesting thread but I'm not going to post it here so it can be picked apart.

Instead, although I know it's been asked before, to those of you who believe someone can be a woman without biologically being one I ask the question: What do you think should be put in place in law to provide safe spaces for trans people and women and what are you doing about it?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
StopThePlanet · 01/08/2019 21:59

mewk

It really is quite novel when a man comes on a feminism board and purports to educate the 'womens' LOL. It's a really bad look for you and will shut most doors before you have a chance to stick your foot in - see, many of us have spent too much of our lives around men trying to educate us/tell us how to think/tell us how it is so it isn't welcome here.

FYI, there are tons of highly educated women (from around the globe) on FWR - some of which have biomedical degrees and other STEM disciplines (myself included), as well as lawyers, doctors, etc. Many of the posters here have long since finished their education and spend countless hours every year on CPEs while practicing in our fields... there are many PhDs that participate here (as well as many other levels of education, international designations/certifications, and so on).

You are obviously quite unaware of your audience, please do take note.

I'd like to hear what you have to say but I won't be spoken down to (being told that you're going to educate) when you know not who I am or what I know. The only thing you think you know is that I'm a woman (which I am and so are the vast majority of other posters) which makes your assumption about us needing to be educated not only self-indulgent but also sexist. Do refrain from sexism on the FWR board please, thanks so much!

/Rant lecture over, carry on Smile

Augustian · 01/08/2019 22:00

I think there is a real problem with the FWR board in that not all feminists endorse the FWR orthodoxy, yet if they post anything remotely dissenting they are ridiculed, belittled, told they’ve drunk the kool-aid and generally patronised. If they change name to post there, it’s all ‘ooh first time poster, really?’ with the implication something is untoward about this. I’m a feminist in my late fifties, have been an ‘out’ feminist since my teens. I’ve worked in women-only spaces. Feminism has defined my life. I’ve been both an activist and have had a more academic engagement with feminism. And I cannot get on board with the dominant views re trans people on FWR. There are many of us. We are not stupid or naive, we’re not unaware of the arguments about trans rights, gender, etc. I read these boards to make sure I understand those arguments. But I do not agree. My disagreement is informed, thoughtful, and born of experience. I cannot bear the way women are patronised on here. So, I’m not engaging with the arguments, and these are the reasons why.

RosesAndRaindrops · 01/08/2019 22:01

It really is quite novel when a man comes on a feminism board and purports to educate the 'womens' LOL

Wh the fuck are you to say anyone with a differing opinion is man?
LOL at the end or whatever. Doesn't mean it's anyway less silencing.

Original poster
Doyoumind · 01/08/2019 22:06

Decompsing the only thing that defines us is our biology. Society has done a good job of attributing behaviours beyond the biological ones to each sex and reinforcing them. That's why people say "Men are like this. Women do that." Men are expected to do that and women expected to do this.

OP posts:
FormerMediocreMale · 01/08/2019 22:10

roses mewk has said they are not a woman so it is perfectly normal to assume they are therefore a man.

Ali86 · 01/08/2019 22:10

Studies show that trans people have the brain chemistry and makeup of the "opposite" of their gentials, so it actually aligns with their gender not their sex

Mewk, as an interested lurker who is interested in hearing a full range of opinion on this issue, I would really appreciate you posting links to these studies when you are back online. I've not come across research that supports that view but I would be interested in reading the research that you are referring to.

Original poster
Doyoumind · 01/08/2019 22:11

Roses mewk said they weren't a woman so can only be man or NB possibly.

OP posts:
RosesAndRaindrops · 01/08/2019 22:11

I cannot bear the way women are patronised on here. So, I’m not engaging with the arguments, and these are the reasons why
Fair enough, I completely hear what you're saying here.
I hate it too.
Plenty of personal attacks.
I only engage though as I do it for the lurkers.
There's an anti trans current here I can't just let lie.

StopThePlanet · 01/08/2019 22:14

RosesAndRaindrops

It really is quite novel when a man comes on a feminism board and purports to educate the 'womens' LOL

Wh the fuck are you to say anyone with a differing opinion is man? LOL at the end or whatever. Doesn't mean it's anyway less silencing.

Who are you to talk to me like that? You are something else. ROTFLMAO

I've never even engaged you as I find the majority of what you say to be completely illogical and nonsensical - I don't typically engage with people that can't hold a pragmatic conversation as I have better things to do than waste my time.

Mewk on the other hand might actually have something of value to say beyond feelings so I am interested in what he has to say.

And he is a man he said he isn't a woman, so what's left? I think you need to work on your reading comprehension.

RosesAndRaindrops · 01/08/2019 22:14

Roses mewk said they weren't a woman so can only be man or NB possibly

Really, OK I missed that one then will go have a look if so

Original poster
Doyoumind · 01/08/2019 22:14

I know you don't want to engage Augustian but I am asking in good faith what your ideal legal solution would be to provide safe spaces for all. That was the point of the thread. Do you see no issues in this area?

OP posts:
TheNavigator · 01/08/2019 22:16

I think there is a real problem with the FWR board in that not all feminists endorse the FWR orthodoxy, yet if they post anything remotely dissenting they are ridiculed, belittled, told they’ve drunk the kool-aid and generally patronised. If they change name to post there, it’s all ‘ooh first time poster, really?’ with the implication something is untoward about this. I’m a feminist in my late fifties, have been an ‘out’ feminist since my teens. I’ve worked in women-only spaces. Feminism has defined my life. I’ve been both an activist and have had a more academic engagement with feminism. And I cannot get on board with the dominant views re trans people on FWR. There are many of us. We are not stupid or naive, we’re not unaware of the arguments about trans rights, gender, etc. I read these boards to make sure I understand those arguments. But I do not agree. My disagreement is informed, thoughtful, and born of experience. I cannot bear the way women are patronised on here. So, I’m not engaging with the arguments, and these are the reasons why.

Round of applause - I could have written this myself. I got pulled back in to FWR board by a thread denouncing young women who are not anti trans in a way I found ageist and misogynistic. This thread has reminded my why, as a feminist, I never usually bother with the FWR board.

RosesAndRaindrops · 01/08/2019 22:17

Even if mewk isn't that doesn't mean not allowed an opinion
Everyone's allowed an opinion on MN.
That's the beauty of it

StopThePlanet · 01/08/2019 22:17

RosesAndRaindrops

Plenty of personal attacks.

Oh, like...

Wh the fuck are you

You are a hypocrite - that's fact I've read it with my own eyes.

FormerMediocreMale · 01/08/2019 22:21

Mewk is allowed an opinion no one is saying he isnt - we have in fact asked for more information from him!

That doesnt change the fact a man coming on to FWR saying he wants to "educate" us is condescending and mysoginist.

StopThePlanet · 01/08/2019 22:23

RosesAndRaindrops

Even if mewk isn't that doesn't mean not allowed an opinion

Again, reading comprehension check yourself before making blanket statements or cursing at other people that have never engaged you before.

I said I'd like to hear what he has to say twice. Which is once more than I ever ask about wanting to hear what a man has to say (because usually I don't have to say it more than once).

RosesAndRaindrops · 01/08/2019 22:25

You are a hypocrite - that's fact I've read it with my own eyes

Who have I insulted?
Seriously?
Don't think I've thrown any insults

Who the fuck are you to say - in response to a comment insultine others Confused
How is that an insult then?
Might have been said a bit aggressively yes, I'll take that but what you quoted wasn't an insult.

RosesAndRaindrops · 01/08/2019 22:25

insulting

OldCrone · 01/08/2019 22:25

I'm still waiting for you to tell me how a detailed description of the difference between the lives and men and women is going to change your position on this matter. It's not, is it?

Why don't you tell me what the difference is between living as a woman and living as a man, and we'll see if my opinion changes. And I'm not asking for 'the difference between the lives of men and women' which is a different question entirely.

RosesAndRaindrops · 01/08/2019 22:28

Mewk on the other hand might actually have something of value to say beyond feelings so I am interested in what he has to say

Beyond feelings - says a lot
Why do I repeatedly keep being asked to try and define feelings then if you don't want to hear anything beyond feelings.

DecomposingComposers · 01/08/2019 22:29

It's not my job to educate you.

Not asking you to educate me. You are giving your opinion and I'm asking you about it, but seemingly you resent this because apparently that's me expecting To be educated.

Yet your very next post you then say

Please share what makes you a woman roses.

So, do you think it's roses job to educate you NeurotrashWarrior?

RosesAndRaindrops · 01/08/2019 22:29

Why don't you tell me what the difference is between living as a woman and living as a man, and we'll see if my opinion changes. And I'm not asking for 'the difference between the lives of men and women' which is a different question entirely.

Well if you can't even try to understand or even empathise at a push from this thread then there's no hope really.

PetrolBastard · 01/08/2019 22:30

You already have that information available to you from living your own life. You only seek for me to give some description of being a woman that you can seize on and claim that X, Y, or Z isn't being a woman. It's ultimately impossible for me to describe in brief summary what it is to be a woman, so I don't consider it purposeful to make an attempt.

RosesAndRaindrops · 01/08/2019 22:32

Please share what makes you a woman roses. So, do you think it's roses job to educate you NeurotrashWarrior?

Exactly, I mean dafuq, am I supposed to educate you now lol?
(Sorry descending to the level, must not, must not)
Thought were we just all sharing experiences and opinions......
Already said, if you can't or won't see, then blah, I said it on the other thread and now I'm saying it on here and never ending circular roundabout of bleh lol

OldCrone · 01/08/2019 22:36

In which case, why all of the threads criticising men for what they do? If men and women are the same apart from biological functions where do these behavioural differences come from?

That's a good point, and one with its own contradictions. For example, about 98% of sex offenders are male, so we might describe offences like rape and sexual assault as predominantly male offences, which are perhaps due to something which is characteristic of male brains. Yet when we look at the offending pattern of male self-identified transgender prisoners, we find that about 50% of them are in prison for sexual offences. So male transgender people commit sexual offences at a much higher rate than other males, when according to the lady brain theory, hardly any of these transgender prisoners should have been sexual offenders.

Hard to explain, isn't it?