To those who visit the board and believe in gender identity, what is your solution?

[Doyoumind]

I've been on Twitter again and seen another interesting thread but I'm not going to post it here so it can be picked apart.

Instead, although I know it's been asked before, to those of you who believe someone can be a woman without biologically being one I ask the question: What do you think should be put in place in law to provide safe spaces for trans people and women and what are you doing about it?

Decomposing do you accept that at least a part of what you believe a man is that isn't biology-based is due to the socialisation that exists in our patriarchal world?

If men and women are the same apart from biological functions where do these behavioural differences come from?

A gendered world (patriarchical structures, attitudes, biases, toys, clothes) creates a gendered brain. Which creates behaviour.

There are sex differences in the brain powered by structures and hormones and after puberty testosterone can affect behaviour. But so can many many other factors.

If you look at gendered brains, as in those who have a brain type stereotypically associated with Male or female, there's much more variation within one sex than between the sexes.

Of course they exist mewk and I've honestly never seen anyone suggest they don't. I've only seen TRAs pretend people have questioned their existence.

Sorry I should've explained I'm not a woman, my apologies

Seriously, do all the public loos you use have an attendant present? The ones I frequent don't.

You have to remember that CHILDREN also use toilets and changing rooms and may not have parents with them (e.g. at school)

So if one of your main concerns is the safety of children what about young boys who have to use male toilets? Are they not then at the biggest risk?

@Doyoumind sorry I misunderstood then, what about what I have said do you hold issue with precisely? Unsure how to respond now as I don't understand what you're getting at

Sorry if I'm articulating myself badly

Look at a different aspect of society.

Engineering prowess of a society has been proven (archaeologically) to be dependent on the types of toys children played with.

So the more STEM like the toys, the better the engineering of the nation. And it fed back to the next generation of children as the toys became better.

But then think about how toys are now so gendered? In a way gender is assigned at birth in that it's automatically assumed a girl likes pink. (Sex is observed.) the girl then is given all the pink toys. Which are mainly to do with house work and child care.

They miss out on the mechano and skeletrix (sp). They get good at plaiting hair and painting.

The rest is history...

If my DS goes into the men's I keep a bloody good eye on what's going on and have been known to open the door and shout in to check on him.

So you're saying that there are no differences between men and women other than physical, biological differences? In which case, why all of the threads criticising men for what they do? If men and women are the same apart from biological functions where do these behavioural differences come from?

Good point

There are physical biological differences in the brain.

No one is saying there aren't.

But legislation does not currently require me to believe in or endorse or in any way alter my own life to cater to others religious beliefs

Legislation does compel you to it discriminate against people based.on their religious beliefs though, or to treat them differently because of their beliefs.

Thanks mewk.

However that is a review of "current opinion" by J Olsen-Kennedy and others with recommendations for research. It is not a peer reviewed paper by neoroscientists. It is also based on US rather than UK which is very different in terms if law and medicine.

mewk trans people exist. That's not being debated.

We are discussing how you define man and woman in law to prevent men masquerading as trans into women's spaces such a changing rooms, refuges and services aimed at females.

If my DS goes into the men's I keep a bloody good eye on what's going on and have been known to open the door and shout in to check on him

Same, been outside the door even at the age of 8 before, shouted from outside "you OK in there?" if taking a while.
Not sure what that's got to do with trans though and more the fact that I'm not able to be in there with them and so just want to check OK.

Some useful reading:

It was in response to Decomposing asking why we don't worry about boys in toilets, Roses.

Decomposing do you accept that at least a part of what you believe a man is that isn't biology-based is due to the socialisation that exists in our patriarchal world?

I don't believe that, no, because I don't see these common traits that some of you believe in. I see individuals, regardless of their sex.

But it's you all that are saying it's all down to biology. That the only difference between men and women is biology. Now you seem to be saying that there are behavioural differences too. But there surely can't be because otherwise a man could live as a woman by behaving like a woman, which you say is impossible because there is no such thing as "behaving like a woman"?

Sadly I can't pair the First page as too many images; literally in the introduction the notion that a womanly feel is a regressive and sexist and imagined notion.

We have the definition in law. Yes some feelz etc and they can be trans, no one is disputing it.

Transmen still require certain rights aligning to their sex because biology so bollocks to all twaw because they simply aren't.

So, solution now please?

I think there should be gender neutral toilets and changing rooms.
Those that have passing privilege won't trigger women in the ladies.
Those that want to avoid any confrontation/being stared at might prefer to use the neutral or those who hate queuing like me (not condoning being stared at btw).
That leaves you with those determined to use the women's toilets as validation and those wishing to use self ID who are not trans but wish to lurk. I haven't encountered either to be fair. Is that a solution in itself? Not really but it comes down to who you want to chuck under the bus and I'd preferably see neither get run over.
The alternative is women or transwomen going to the toilet at home/only trying on clothes at home/avoiding pools or festivals or whatnot where they might not feel comfortable: also not ideal by any stretch. It would be far easier if no-one identified as anything and we all just were. But that's not human nature.

There are physical biological differences in the brain

So are you now saying that there are differences between male and female brains?

If my DS goes into the men's I keep a bloody good eye on what's going on and have been known to open the door and shout in to check on him.

And if that isn't possible? Or if your son is out without you?

What, outside of biological functions that not every woman experiences makes you feel like a woman?

Nothing. Take it all away and it's just personality

Not for me.
All different aren't we

Decomposing

It's not my job to educate you. I'm sorry you don't get it. This is a complex area. You wilfully ignore links and posts.

I'd suggest to any lurkers, read the Gina Rippon book as it covered sex differences, personality and behaviour and look into the impact of gendered stereotypes (attitudes, treatment, clothes, messages, books, toys, games) on children and also on emotional literacy and behaviour. The bbc did a good basic explanation in the two part series 'no more boys and girls.'

Please share what makes you a woman roses.

Please share what makes you a woman roses

argggghhhhhhhhhhhhh