Hello Lurkers!

[BadgertheBodger]

Hi. Hello. Howya doing?

I have unwittingly become a lurker on this board as I often find the brilliant long-standing posters have not only got there before me but put my contribution to shame.

But! There’s a place for every woman in feminism and I wanted to start a thread for lurkers, or less confident posters, to share their thoughts. I want this to be a thread which has less of a focus on the most amazingly analytical comment, and more about posters (particularly lurkers) sharing thoughts and working out ideas in conjunction with all the incredible resources available on this board.

Here’s to all of us looking, thinking, but not posting. Your opinion is welcome too. I would love this to be a thread where we shared our thoughts

Just struggle with my failing pelvic floor!

May I suggest no trampolines

Wow Helena, thank you for sharing all this

So many eloquent knowledgeable women.

Fantastic and incredibly moving post Helena - I hope you find a suitable swim teacher someday, sadly I’m too far away to be of use.

Hello! Very long term lurker and occasional poster. I've recently started getting active on twitter, going to meetings and joining real life feminist groups thanks to the MN feminist boards so thanks for that!

Reading this thread I've been thinking about all of us who can't get to big events - because of travel/ costs/childcare/ anxiety eTC. I wonder if there's a way of replicating those events -speakers/meeting new people- online? So more women could be included if you see what I mean?

Thanks for the comments, they're all really kind. I don't know why, but I felt guilty after posting all of that (and do if/when I ever do speak about it IRL) as it's so heavy, and I sort of feel responsible for the impact that heaviness has on other people/conversations/emotions and don't like making people feel like that. Not sure how to reconcile that feeling really. Hope I didn't make any of you sad.

Oh, and just because it has been bugging me, another example of the stuff I posted about parallels in activist tactics/silencing/etc which I forgot about earlier, but has pissed me off all over again after remembering it is how upset and betrayed I was with the Womens Equality Party who pulled a particularly cowardly move at the time (I should have done another one of those anonymous posts with my face covered, but didn't want to turn it into a thing). In the same way that they prevaricated (I think that's the right word), and wouldn't commit to even the definition of women, they abandoned women of religion before that, and in doing so, opened the doors to very far right personalities to use that to appropriate their own narrative. They did this by refusing to take a line on Sharia law courts, which, believe me, I know through my own horrendous experience, are shit for women, and often run contrary to our own laws here (which aren't great for women). There's an amazing campaign, called One Law For All which campaigns against parallel religious legal systems, and Womens Equality Party wouldn't support them, those feminist warriors. That was a betrayal (you see the theme here!?) I will not forgive, or forget. Back then, I couldn't understand how they had the gall to use the word 'equality' when they were assigning those of us, those subject to the pressures of religious institution that place, that we weren't as deserving of the equality they claim to represent, (ie/not all women!) because they were afraid of offence and political incorrectness (hello 'intersectionality'). They did that again with women, and now I'm adding 'women' to 'equality' in the list of things I don't understand how the WEP claim to represent. I keep imagining if there was a way of translating this online board into a real life political party, it'd be a force to reckon with. A girl can dream.

Sorry for going off on one there about WEP, but it's been bugging me all afternoon and wanted to get it off my chest! Don't want to dominate the thread though.

Also, please someone put me out of my misery and tell me what FWR stands for? And what the deal is with the biscuits mentioned in some threads? And what the little bottles mean?

Be more Nanna is great. Someone should do a little sketch show of Nanna moments, I'd love to watch that.

Hope I didn't make any of you sad.

Behave yourself Helena, what you posted was INSPIRING. We need to hear more from you, and you need to value your input more. You are exactly the type of woman we need to hear from, make your voice heard

I've found the FWR board great for helping me to refine my thinking and to see issues I've overlooked. I've been lurking on here for quite a long time and read as much as I can but have posted very rarely. Like many others, I often find that what I would say has already been said by someone else, and more clearly and articulately than I would have done.

I often have bouts of very intense work when I'm offline for several days and then don't have time to RTFT to catch up, so I worry about joining in a thread that's got a lot of posts on it. I also know I would struggle to cope with the admirable robustness of some posters as I have issues with anxiety/depression, so all these things make me better suited to lurking. But I really appreciate being able to read and mull over the analysis provided by so many intelligent, articulate, informed women, and I'm grateful to you all.

I do have conversations with women IRL where I try to set out the radfem perspective. I believe I've brought a few women to see the danger to women's rights, and to see how our conditioning to be nice and put others first plays into the hands of the MRA/TRAs. So I hope that's useful; it's as much as I can currently do. Though I would love to attend a WPUK meeting/meet other radfems IRL and hope to do so one day.

Helena I wanna give you a hug! Your responsible for saying the truth, your not responsible for how others handle the truth that's their indivdual business.

Little bottles are hun, biscuits are for trolls I think and I have no idea what FWR stands for.

Feminism and Women's Rights?

Ummm Helena, persister, compainion, rosi, and everyone else who was where I was 6 months ago.... just pick a thread, find a point you agree with, and post!

That headlong euphoric rush will go

We won't.

Little bottles gin not hun... bottles of huns would be weird

HelenaHandcart - you have an awesome username! I started reading your post thinking oohh I should reply about her cool username. Then the rest of your post was even better.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and the private and painful parts of your life.
I am on the autistic spectrum as well and I dread to think what might have happened to me if I was growing up today, immersed in trans rhetoric. I am British Asian now, but I was born and raised in an Islamic country. I can't swim or cycle as there was never any opportunity to do so there. It is my goal to learn both one day. I hope you learn to swim too! You're never too old! If I was in London, we could go together. :)

My dad converted to Islam about a decade ago and that led to the breakdown of my parents' marriage. My mum is a JW and there are a number of coercive and controlling factors just like Islam that keep people in, but at least there's no death threats for leaving it!

When I moved to the UK and was questioning my JW faith, I felt quite close to the online British ex-Muslim community. I was a frequent poster on the CEMB forum and admired all the trailblazers like Maryam Namazie and Gita Sahgal. I know about the tactics by Islamists to silence ex-Muslims and I have always shared your anger and bitter disappointment at the sheer betrayal by the Left and 'progressives'. Siding with Islamists instead of ex-Muslims and secular Muslims. I occasionally still rant and post about it on Facebook. No one responds as expected, especially the woke folk, as it's a terribly inconvenient truth.

I'm so sorry about your forced marriage. I am glad that you have managed to leave your husband and religion behind. I hope you find happiness and don't let despair get the better of you. Living on a boat sounds badass.

All the very best from a fellow apostate and feminist in Edinburgh.

I love this thread so much

@HelenaHandcart
Thank you for sharing. I am a strong swimmer but not a proper coach or anything. I have a condition which means my doctor wants me away from chlorine for now, but I’d love to be able to help you or if you can’t wait for me to teach you maybe a gentle lovely coach I know can help you. Please PM me if you want to.

Hello, I am a lurked too. So much intelligent and informed discussion happens here. I am so grateful for this space. I am an old style feminist who fell asleep thinking everything was ok. I can't really believe what has happened to discussions of gender in the last 5 years. I am very glad to be here lurking. Grateful..

HelenaHandcart you really do have a great username

Also thank you for for sharing your thoughts. They are very interesting and informative. Please do continue to post I would love to hear more.

I also worry sometimes about whether the things that I post are too heavy. I lurked for a longtime on FWR before deciding to just do it. I don't post loads and mostly post on safeguarding threads or about my concerns for the impact that trans-inclusive policies will have on girls who are being/ have been sexually abused. I just hope that something I post here or something I do elsewhere will have even just the tiniest impact on the consideration given to the immense needs of these vulnerable girls.

I lurk on most of the other threads but I have learnt so much here. I am very grateful to all the regular posters and also for the new voices which are always great to hear.

Helena I’d be really interested if you started a thread about your experiences. I always enjoy reading posts which come from a place of passion or even anger about the status quo, and it’s hugely interesting to me to hear the thoughts of someone who has had such a very different experience to me. It’s very powerful when you come to the realisation that even though there are differences between me and you (geographical, religion, skin colour and probably more), we’ve both been fucked over by patriarchy in motion. That’s one of the strongest bonds women are linked by, or I think so anyway; that even though all women are different, we’re united by the experience of being women. In particular, the experience of being women in a world which puts men first. I’ve never met a single woman who hasn’t been fucked over in some way, all the way from being passed over for promotion in favour of a less talented man to the horrors of rape and abuse.

Men will never, ever understand what it is to be a woman; they do not share our experiences. Men who identify as women usually understand even less, as they usually have a pornified view based on flimsy stereotypes. They know this. That’s what makes them so angry at us.

HelenaHandcart - thank you so much for sharing. That was moving, infomative and inspiring.

Another lurker here who also feels I can't add anything to the awesome, articulate, well-informed critical thinkers who post so regularly.

I've always described myself as a feminist but never really thought about what that meant and this board has been an education.

The relationship board has also influenced me as, until I began to read MN regularly, I had no idea of the level of abuse and manipulation many women routinely put up with. Becoming interested in domestic abuse led to me reading a report on femicide which listed all the women killed in the UK in 2014. I read the list of names which went on for pages - all those women's lives wiped out - and one of the names caught my eye; it was the same as a girl I was friends with at school. I wondered if she could be the same person so I did an internet search and it was her. The funny, gangly, freckle-faced, cheeky teenager I'd known was kicked to death in her own home by a man who was supposed to love her. Two months later her teenage daughter committed suicide. I think of them often and feel angry and sad about what happened to them.

As for trans issues, well the very notion of someone "living as a woman" infuriates me. I have a husband. We do similar jobs, earn similar amounts, wear similar clothes, are a similar height and weight and do similar levels of household chores and childcare. I have no idea which one of us is "living as a woman". My family, including teen children, know it's impossible to change sex and although I haven't had the opportunity to discuss gender identity with anyone outside my family I'm poised with facts and information at my disposal for when the chance arises

HelenaHandcart Hazardtired

FWR stands for Feminism and Womens Rights.

Great posts, all!

I don't post on threads every day or even every week but when I do it is a verbose string of thoughts. I lurked for a couple years before posting here as I communicate best in person - my expressions and hands do the real communicating. I'm still pretty new here myself.

Helena if you end up in Florida somehow let me know - I'd be honored to give you swimming lessons.

Your voices are valid and welcome, I'd definitely like to read more from you as PPs have said above.

Yes FWR = Feminism: Women's Rights

TheInebriati

X-post

My verbosity thwarts me again!!!

Lakeswimmer oh my god. I’m so sorry. What a horrible thing to find out, and her daughter as well. Two women gone from this world because of a man. Because of male violence. I am glad you think of them. I’m sure it brings you a lot of sadness to think of them but I’m glad you do. They’re not forgotten, or a statistic. They were women, with freckles, one a mum, one a daughter.

I’m so sorry if my post makes you sad, which I think it most likely will. I just really wanted to acknowledge them, and to say that others know they were here, and that they lived, and that they are remembered. Sending huge hugs, I don’t care if that’s unmumsnetty

Thanks @BadgertheBodger until I read the report I hadn't thought of her for a very long time as I hadn't seen her since we left school and she was really more a friend of a friend. I only found out about her daughter because I read the online newspaper reports about the case but when someone you knew is murdered then it makes it real. Every one of the hundreds of women in that report had their own life, own story, own family devastated to lose them and that's just one year in one country with similar stories repeated around the globe. For me it just reinforces how much we still have to do to and the last thing we need is to have to start fighting over what the definition of a woman actually is FFS!

It just makes the lame TWAW trotted out by so many unthinking politicians all the more appalling in my view. No, they're not - women are the people being murdered in their own homes. As so many here have said I'm politically homeless, fed up with the bullshit and becoming more and more passionate about freedom of speech.

Another long-time lurker here. I’ve been on MN for years with a different account and usernames. I access Mumsnet almost exclusively through FWR now and have learned so much from the amazing, intelligent, articulate and though-provoking posters on these threads.

I agree with badger, I think many threads could come from this one and I do think what you've shared Helena could be its own thread.

My gosh lakes. No words, just awful.