Hello Lurkers!

[BadgertheBodger]

Hi. Hello. Howya doing?

I have unwittingly become a lurker on this board as I often find the brilliant long-standing posters have not only got there before me but put my contribution to shame.

But! There’s a place for every woman in feminism and I wanted to start a thread for lurkers, or less confident posters, to share their thoughts. I want this to be a thread which has less of a focus on the most amazingly analytical comment, and more about posters (particularly lurkers) sharing thoughts and working out ideas in conjunction with all the incredible resources available on this board.

Here’s to all of us looking, thinking, but not posting. Your opinion is welcome too. I would love this to be a thread where we shared our thoughts

"I wish we had a real life lurkers code / emblem / secret handshake!"

Totally with you joggerbottom.

Hello all
Mostly lurker, lurked on the FWR board since it started, feel like I've had the most amazing feminist education here. I don't post because I'm not quick enough but I sign and repost and donate (and talk about it a lot in real life - weirdly that's always seemed easier). Thanks everyone!

Quite new to MN and like the intellect and tenacity of FWR. Still learning alot having been shut down in a unhealthy relationship but i am emerging and learning new perspectives. I think it will help me going forward. I think I peak trans the other day 😂

Oh wow, this is amazing.

So many. Wow. ❤️❤️❤️

I've made myself laugh - being rendered so inarticulate !!!!

I have posted but do so less now mainly because of time. I agree with posters here that I have learned a lot and been made to think. However, I am also aware that people can sometimes get slated for their opinions and that can be difficult if they have finally plucked up the courage to post. So lurking is also a form of self protection and that is a bit sad on a forum for women I think.

Hello lovely lurkers!
What a brilliant thread, well done BadgertheBodger
Don't be scared to post if you're usually a lurker, and don't worry about being articulate. All that matters is that you find your voice, and others get to hear it.

I'm a lurker, and just saying Hi, I'm here. This topic is really important to me and I'm in Canada.

I've had the thread on watch so yes lurking on the lurker thread. Great idea OP. I lightly lurk about on here and on twitter.

So for what its worth...

I'm quite non committal to the trans debate and should stick to lurking but i havent seen much discussion on the differences between the sexes in terms of immunity. Does a trans man taking hormones develop a sterotypical weaker male immune system or retain a stronger female one? Is there an answer to that? If not isn't that worrying? Would the answer change depending on what age the hormone treatment started? Are trans women on hormones also at a higher risk of autoimmune disease like biological women?

Immunology is very much an emerging area of research/science but we know there are differences between the sexes in terms of how immune systems work.

This article explains more on a theory (yet to be proven) on why biological women are more prone to a higher risk of autoimmune diseases (i wont bother linking to an article explaining why man flu is real but they are widely available)

www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2019/06/women-autoimmune-diseases-pregnancy/591901/

Researchers in this area really need to know patients sex and if the above placental theory proves true this may lead to sex specific prevention treatments/lifestyle advice.

Trans women get autoimmune diseases at the same rate as biological women isn't exactly as attention grabbing as trans women have periods which is probably why I've never stumbled across it on twitter or here

Back to lurky lurk and the safety of the brexit topic!

Hi, frequent lurker here. I don't post much because I'm scared tbh of TRAs. I try to do a bit in real life. My MP was rubbish when I wrote to them. It feels hard for me to speak out but feel safe but I do what I can. In awe of the wisdom and courage of others here. Women and children's rights are being eroded - so fed up of having to "move over".

Another lurker here. Just wow at this thread. As others have said I also feel others are much more articulate than me.

I am an older woman who was late coming to feminism. Earlier adult years being who others wanted me to be. A lot happened and I came out as a lesbian at 40. Since then learned so much about patriarchy and women. Realised the thoughts I had when younger were valid and substantiated.

I am a reader, listener and thinker rather than being verbal. I get so much information from the boards and thank those who get it out there.

I do what I can on Twitter and in conversations with other women to enlighten them and also my with my daughter.

I've just remembered years ago a man was trying to pick me up as I was getting divorced. He thought I needed another man to look after me. I stunned myself and friends by saying 'What can you do for me that I cant do for myself' that was the start of the new me. Women are rising and fighting and I'm proud to do what I can.

Another lurker here who doesn't post much but is gathering some comebacks for real life convos about this.

I'm so grateful to all the clever and articulate women who are standing up against this craziness. Thank you to all of you!

My 15 YO DD came out as bi a couple of years ago but has said that she's more lesbian. She also has a friend at school who is trans (FTM) and is still fairly adamant that TWAW and TMAM. Interestingly we were talking about something else recently and she herself said "just because you think you're something doesn't mean you are". I've kept that nugget for later

Just returning to say thank you to those of you who responded so kindly to my delurking post. It is also lovely to see the other lurkers coming forward. This thread should really get to 1000 posts and parts 2, 3 and more because there are 1000s of us watching and reading and nodding our heads in agreement!

As for the other kind of watchers: women are rising folks, deal with it!

I'm a fellow lurker for reasons loads of people have mentioned - that whatever I want to say has already been said by someone far more articulate than I am!

So thank you to all of you who tirelessly discuss and research. You've given me the strength to write to my mp and organisations. To stand up to my employer regarding our equality policy (had gender not sex as a protected characteristic - I actually said 'this is the hill I'm prepared to die on' to my boss when she said their wording was fine. They did change it eventually.) I've filled in the consultations, signed petitions, donated to causes. All of these things I wouldn't have done without the confidence of your words and intelligence to back me up.

Hi hazard that was really interesting, thank you.

It fits with women who aren't able to stay pregnant and have an extreme form of immune response to any baby - there's a dr in London who can offer treatment via lots of steroids in early pregnancy, I've met two women who've seen him.

It also fits with a theory I've seen somewhere that breasts evolved from part of the immune system; obviously antibodies are within mothers' milk so it must be.

Some autoimmune conditions get better during or after pregnancy, or worse.

But yes, sex matters.

Long time lurker, very rare poster, pleased to see this thread.

Am fed up to the back teeth and beyond with WTAF has been happening to the world in the last decade, leaving out the messiness of the previous 50+ years.

If I read one more comment about how women have had it too good for too long, that TWAW, that TW have periods and that my blasted rights are to be put aside for someone else's body dysmorphic disorder to have precedence I may start screaming and never be able to stop.

I'm tired of this utter crap and won't put up with it any more. Calling out bad behaviour puts one in the position of being considered mad or dangerous - be nice and don't complain leads so quickly to shut up bitch when instant compliance isn't done - but putting up with this shite isn't going to be the next years of my life.

It's a fucking tiresome uphill battle though - had better be worth it.

Lurker here too, but only a very occasional poster and only if there is something I can add that might be of value. I've learned so much, found posts that articulate - far more eloquently than I ever could - my concerns about FWR and the safeguarding of children, and unashamedly filched the best and most logical arguments to put to my MP, a couple of Cabinet ministers and the local council. I've signed petitions, filled in online consultations and submitted complaints; all of these as a direct result of the inspiration on the FWR board.

As my confidence and knowledge has grown, I've opened up conversations with family and friends and found, to my delight, that they share my GC views but had been nervous about expressing them. Not any longer. Now, I'm starting to engage with the more "waffly woke" of my acquaintance by asking the sort of questions that can't be answered by ignoring biological truth.

Thank you for this thread, OP. And thank you, JackyHolyoake for your regular, patient clarifications of the EA2010.

I've lurked for years and never post, but I live in the US and began quite a while ago to talk to people about it here. I'm East Coast, there are transkids in the high school, and the son of a friend of a friend has been trans since the age of 3. They are all totally shocked that 'someone like me' would think that transwomen are not actual women, but its surprising how many want to talk about it again. I'm chipping away at every opportunity!

I lurk on FWR all the time! I can’t do anything online as I work in education and need to keep my iob(!) but I do speak to friends and colleagues in person when I see an opportunity and have been working directly with the formidable women of TGT on their schools info packs.

I'm mainly a lurker but I read almost everything on this board and the links shared etc. I am always surprised in real life when most people don't know this any of this stuff so I'm doing my bit to educate. When I do I have a hell of a lot to say thanks to the FWR contributors.

Lovely to read about you all.

I'm more of a lurker than a poster and have been reading this board for about two years. I have learnt so much from this board and as a result have signed petitions, written letters, complained (mainly to the BBC and peak-transed many people in RL. (Disclaimer: I have nothing against trans people, but I am very much against self ID and will fight for the saftey and dignty of girls and women.)

I'm not a confident poster but try to post something everyday. The more of us there are, the stronger we are!

Godxilla Just last night I started a thread....I deleted the whole bloody lot.

I lurked for ages.

Started my first thread. Had a mad, scared head rush when I hit post.
Got my arse handed to me and the thread deleted by MN. 😂
To be fair, I was an arse. But I learnt.
And I still post and start threads!

I'm still on training wheels compared to Datun, Lang, Neuro, R0, Prawn, and you know the brilliant teachers we have on here.

I'm still learning and what helps me the most is when a lurker comes on to a thread to say 'hey GirlDownUnder, I agree / don't agree because reason'. Sometimes we just need to know we are being heard.

I'm so pleased you created this thread badger.

I feel quite secure in my feminism, but I've found the last few years quite hard in some ways.
I hate how I feel the guilt of being 'unkind' even though, in my heart I disagree that TWAW.
I hate that I can't say that out loud, because I'm scared I'll be fired, or harmed.
I hate that the fact I'm scared, will please some people, maybe even someone reading this now.
I hate how as a class, I don't like men as much anymore. They laugh along at each other's misogyny, hog our space, they're too big & too loud & too full of self importance.
I hate that I see my own impotence & weakness. A group of men were trying to talk to my friend & I on the train home last night. I wanted to justifiably tell the ringleader to leave us alone, but I knew that would cause agro so I smiled & was disinterested & we ended up sitting quietly so they left it.

I could go on...

I swear I genuinely felt my awakening to feminism. I felt the shift in my centre of gravity move from men being the centre of my concern to women. Always it tries to pull back, but I am resolved, however uncomfortable it makes me, that I will always make my first thought 'so what does this mean for women?'

Even though it's exhausting & makes me grumpy

This is a lovely thread. It's great to see so many people posting on it already.

I occasionally post on topics, but I can have some controversial opinions at times that could be at odds with (radical) feminism so I don't try to cause myself trouble unless I'm feeling in a fiesty mood. :) I try to use other sites for that.

Generally, I lurk like others. There's a wealth of information and experience here and the threads move so quickly at times that it can be hard to formulate a response.

I've always been a feminist, even before I knew of the word. I suppose I am a weird Venn diagram of radical, socialist and liberal feminism?! I don't know what other types there are.
Anyway I love facts, being grounded in reality, pragmatism, I hate ideological purity etc and the more I thought about and learned about queer theory and trans ideology, the more worrying it all sounded.

This board has been invaluable in helping my understanding of the subject and reigniting my feminist passion (and my anger at what is happening to women on an individual and class level at the moment with TRA stuff). I learn something new all the time. Even in this thread, Hazardtired posted the article about women's immune system which was fascinating!

I've been to only one public meeting. I'm articulate in writing but not speaking so I stick to signing petitions, emailing or writing to MSPs, donating and so on.
I only really speak to my partner about all this. I think I've managed to sway him a bit to our side. He's very concerned about children being pushed onto a medical pathway.

Otherwise I avoid engaging in the trans debate with other people as many folk I know are blindly supportive without thinking through the implications, or heavily invested in the TRA side.

I'm grateful to the intelligent and capable women on this board for their debates and arguments, even if I don't always agree with everything that is said. I enjoy differences of opinions.

While I don't directly engage in trans debates, I have started posting more scientific and interesting articles on my Facebook page. I subtly highlight the biological differences between women and men, violence on women, the importance of reality over feelings, importance of critical thought and understanding the mechanisms of how people's thoughts and behaviour can be warped by ideologies and so on. Hopefully it sows seeds that will geminate into doubts and healthy skepticism when faced with TRA arguments.

@GroggyLegs you have articulated exactly what I'm feeling right now.