Letter to Men

[Passtheknitting]

Someone else posted something from him a few weeks ago and I posted one a while ago.

This looks an interesting read too.

An open letter to men ....

lonelyts.blog/2019/07/20/dear-men/

"The best candidate". I would laugh if it wasn't so tragic, given the current political situation.

'I can well believe it's under reported but on the other hand victims are likely to be drawn to feminism (which only 7% of UK women identify with)'

What a peculiar pov

Women only become feminists if they have been sexually abused by a man or men

Come off it!

It's not a small minority

Man was openly ogling my 10yo today on the High St.

Well, the way I see it is that if I was about to go into theatre for potentially life changing surgery I'd want the doctor who was chosen for their competence, not their gender.

And surely it would only be fair to have 50% POC and 50% trans people too?

Recent thread, one of many

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3628364-To-wonder-honestly-what-must-go-on-in-the-minds-of-some-men

Women only become feminists if they have been sexually abused by a man or men

I don't believe I said that.

'I can well believe it's under reported but on the other hand victims are likely to be drawn to feminism'

This is totally random tbh. You ask for stats from others but this is totally made up!

Read that other thread.

Well, it's almost always feminists that I hear talking about it. 🤷‍♀️

For those who believe that "the best candidate" always get the job, I would say read Cordelia Fine's Delusion of Gender. She does a good job of explaining how "the best candidate" doesn't always get the job, especially if she's a woman. Well, she explains a lot of things.

Ugh this old chestnut. Feminists are the sum of the damage done to them by men.

Nothing to do with enjoying being with other women, enjoying all female spaces, the kick of rebellion ( seriously- anarchist and communist men think they're rebels), the joy of discussion, of writing, -- often about things unrelated to men, such as how to organize an event. The clandestine gatherings.

@LordRudolphVII female surgeons have a slightly less but still statistically significant likelihood of fatal complications resulting from surgery within 30 days of the surgery taking place.

“And surely it would only be fair to have 50% POC and 50% trans people too?“
Well in a population that was 50% poc and 50% trans then yes of course.

“Bertrand

I agree with most of that list ”

Good. Which bits do you have as part of the way you live your life?

LordRudolphVII
"I really don't know how to stop the small minority of violent men and have no influence on them nor any culpability for their chosen actions."

And as you used some American statistic to justify part of your claim, I feel quite happy to use another from there -

"About every 16 hours, a woman is shot and killed by a former or current partner in the USA."

If you make yourself believe that it is only a small minority of men who are violent, you also have no choice but to conclude that the Judicial System allows men, not only to kill once but allows them to befriend, partner or marry another women again and after having sex with her at least once shoots and kills her as well, in a life long rotation.

And you say that you and all men have no culpability in the Judicial System that allows this to happen.

In the last 48 hours I have not only seen this statement being made by a man on MN but also two other statements by long standing active members (seems like) on MN to the effect that they do not feel happy about the label of Feminist - "women's right advocate" alternative was suggested.

With advocates like these on the side of women - Patriarchy will be overthrown very soon.

Shame on all men but more shame on the men like above who seemingly indicate that, they know better and those men in the Judicial System who's job it is, to know better.

No shame on the women because women are raised to put men's interest above her and other women's interest and safety.

As I think I may be breaking some rules of etiquette or at least stepping on some toes - I am prepared and will accept some punishment for this post without reply.

I have never met a man who is prepared to consider whether he and an individual has any collective responsibility for the behaviour if men as a class. If I was One of a class that committed over 90% of violent crime, for example, I would be thinking what I as an individual and a parent could do about ir......

With advocates like these on the side of women - Patriarchy will be overthrown very soon.

Ciswoman instead of woman, woman's rights advocate instead of feminist.

I think it's women want to distance themselves from the word feminism because it is synonymous with man hating. The obvious thing to do would be to purge all the manhaters who are giving feminism a bad rep. But this strategy is somewhat tricky. Manhating can mean anything from simply being a lesbian, to online criticiser of men ( which of course nobody wants) . So what to do. Create another term for the more palatable likeable manhaters who aren't damaging the cause

It's a bit rich to claim that individual men should have some ability to magically affect men as a group, when feminists can't even convince most women to call themselves feminists.

I don't have the kind of power over other women that you are saying men should have over each other. And for that matter, why should I? Other women are allowed to decide what they think for themselves, whether or not I believe it is stupid.

Any man who claims he has this is delusional or fibbing to seem right on.

For example, I think quotas are a terrible idea in almost all instances. They don't change the underlying problems, they mask them, and create new ones.

I've known lots of women who became interested in feminism as a response to sexual violence. Maybe they would have otherwise, but it's not an unreasonable thought, though I doubt there are and statistics around it.

“It's a bit rich to claim that individual men should have some ability to magically affect men as a group,”

I don’t. I expect them not to collude.

So long as there is no barrier to entry, I don't see an issue with each sex gravitating towards different areas dependent on what they prefer.

There is research and other evidence that this just doesn't happen however.

Caroline Criado-Perez's book has an entire chapter on the myth of meritocracy.

Jess Philipps has an interesting and detailed explanation in her book about why she supports women-only shortlists.

Professional services firms are looking at the way work is allocated because they've realised that consistently women were billing less. They had previously chalked that up to women's preference (desire to be at home more/caring responsibilities etc) but new research has proven than in fact it's far more likely to be about work allocation as a result of (often unconscious) bias - the white, male partner gives work to white male associates, meaning women and POC aren't given the proper fee-earning work.

Anecdotally, almost every woman I know at some point has lost out on a job or promotion to a man who is at best, equally qualified, often less so.

Male vs Female consultants is another good example. If I recall recent statistics, as many women are graduating from med school. And yet... consultants are still majority men? Sure, some of that may be female choice. But how often are female doctors being subtly (and not so subtly) been discouraged from these careers? How many have no choice because their (male) partners aren't willing to step up to allow them the flexibility to work the crazy hours trainee consultants need to do?

so I'm afraid the idea that quotas takes away from the "genuinely" best candidates gets, at best, a massive eye roll from me.

Also “you can’t be what you can’t see”.
Women in panels make other women realise what’s possible. And shows women outside the company that it takes equality seriously.

Another thing that infuriates me is this accusation that only a few men are the bad guys. Sure, I'm more than willing to agree that it's a relatively small percentage of men who are doing the raping. But a huge number of men who, on the surface are good guys, are not exactly helping things either.

Recent conversation between me and two "good guys" in a conversation about work (i've paraphrased)

GG1: The new boss is a nightmare. She's absolutely clueless.
GG2: Oh dear. Yes, nothing worse - so many women are getting jobs now just to fulfil quotas or because they need a woman at the top.
GG1: Yup. I mean, obviously I have no problem with a female boss but someone who has been promoted just because she's a woman and is clearly incompetent, isn't doing anyone any favours.
[General chit chat about this between GG1 and GG2 as they attempt to highlight to each other how they are TOTALLY open to a woman boss...]

Me: So you've never had a bad male boss?
GG1: Of course, but that's different.
ME: Really? How? So a bad incompetent boss gets promoted because he knows someone who has conned someone into hiring him and that's okay but an incompetent boss who's a woman is a problem and is entirely because she's a woman?
GG1 and GG2:

I'd like to think they thought about what I was saying. But am not convinced.

It happens ALL the time.

DH had such a huge falling out at a stag party when this sort of crap (in his case, re hiring women who might go on maternity leave) it had a huge impact on friendships with two of his oldest friends and they've never really recovered.

I would really like some men to address the points in my List. But they never do.

I would really like some men to address the points in my List. But they never do.

And it's always noted, Bertrand. We can all see it, it's so transparent.