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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I'm not convinced that feminism has helped the women it should have?

905 replies

soapona · 22/07/2019 13:18

I think on these discussion boards and on my Facebook I see women. They don't insist on marriage so they partner remains married to the ex for years and year, they live together and I wonder what will happen should the man die. I also see women with no security living with men with no intentions of marrying and having children. Women moving in with men too soon. In the days gone by women would and could have insisted on commitment. So now the position for women is worse hanging round waiting for a proposal.

I know they don't have to I'm fairly wealthy and a single parent so have choices and always have. I don't have a lot to gain from marriage.

I'm not sure things have got better for women we are expected to do a lot now two incomes are the usual for a mortgage instead of one in the olden days . So it's a given women work, do the most childcare do we honestly think these thing will change when the power imbalance is there from the beginning?

Also the women marrying "beneath themselves", that's not the correct term but a man earning less and not likely to come into a decent inheritance. What is the point in getting married there if you're a women? Perhaps if the woman is wealthy to avoid inheritance tax for her children but other than that I don't know?

So would woman not be happier marrying the same or above and insisting on marriage early on, like it was a given in days gone by?

Surely Women are now in very risky positions due to this living together in a man's property. I see much more domestic abuse these days. I believe the stats are much higher with non married couples. Surely living together unmarried has been caused by equality and feminism and the very people feminists has been trying to help they've hindered.

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JessicaWakefieldSV · 22/07/2019 19:56

Value virginity.

What the actual fuck.

wigglybluelines · 22/07/2019 19:56

Urgh. Equal not equilateral!

(Sorry I know the thread's moved on but I swear my phone delights in making me look stupid!)

SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 22/07/2019 19:57

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soapona · 22/07/2019 19:57

@M0RVEN I donate to women's aid!

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SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 22/07/2019 19:59

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soapona · 22/07/2019 19:59

@SpartacusAutisticusAHF good point. I'm open to discussion on my views but I feel I need to discuss this!

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SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 22/07/2019 19:59

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soapona · 22/07/2019 20:00

@SpartacusAutisticusAHF Of course men should not be having sex when they're too young.

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SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 22/07/2019 20:00

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IABUQueen · 22/07/2019 20:02

I see it both ways

I think virginity has been such a taboo in western culture that it produced such peer pressure for girls and even boys to become sexualised before they’re ready..

But I also think the definition of virginity is quite significant here.. it shouldn’t be something other people can “tell” about a woman.. such as her hymen and so on.. because that also introduces a culture of unfair control on women only.. when virginity is about both men and women...

I certainly don’t like how many girls are pressured into sexual intimacy because the boy is ready... and they don’t want to lose the chance of a boyfriend... add that to porn culture amongst boys and you find that girls are becoming immensely insecure about their intimate lives wayyyyy before they’re ready.. and only boys are left without this pressure.

LolaSmiles · 22/07/2019 20:08

Those who want kids, families, who develop bonds of human affection, should get over it.
Of course they don't. They should however exercise a spot of autonomy and independent thinking when choosing who to settle down with and have children with.

My point is nobody forced people to give up all their independence to stay home in a financially precarious position supporting a DP who has zero plans to offer any legal protection to the woman he claims to love. My reply you quoted was part of a discussion where someone proposed that people should automatically be forced into legal contracts after 2 years cohabiting aka removing the choice of women and men because some people don't make informed decisions.

It's the same argument that is used to strip away every type of social security and community infrastructure. They should have made a different choice, looked out for their own interests, had an abortion, got a job, got a better education, saved their money.
Except none of that is relevant to my point that nobody other than the people in a relationship are responsible for the way they chose to structure their family and finances.

Most of all, of course, women should work like men and get a nice pension, make sure they don't get pregnant, or want to care for their kids.
And yet again, nobody is saying women shouldn't get pregnant or want to stay home and take care of kids.

The point is (again!!) that if a woman wishes to stay at home then that's totally her right to make the choice that's right for her, but it should be an INFORMED choice and generally that means ensuring that either appropriate legal protections are in place prior to making herself financially vulnerable (e.g. marriage or appropriate legal contracts) or by accepting that doing so without legal contracts places herself in a risky position but that is a risk she is willing to take (e.g. don't then come back in 8 years saying 'I think cohabiting couples should have the same rights imposed on them as married because it turns out DP didn't keep the empty words he said 8 years ago').

TLDR It has nothing to do with people saying women shouldn't have kids or shouldn't care for them. It IS to do with ensuring that women make INFORMED CHOICES, not playing passive and then demanding other women lose their rights because they didn't bother to wise up.

PineappleSeahorse · 22/07/2019 20:11

Why do we need to value virginity? I think instead there needs to far be less emphasis on the whole concept whether it's keeping it or losing it because no one's worth should be determined by the number of penises they have or haven't had inside them, but valuing virginity which too often means demeaning women for daring to have sex is just as harmful to women and girls as the pressure to lose it.

YourSarcasmIsDripping · 22/07/2019 20:14

Young girls encouraged by are over sexualised society are pushed into sex LONG before they're ready.

And by valuing virginity they end up having anal or oral sex instead. I mean,they can't sit down and are terrified that they have been bleeding from their ass for 3 days straight, but that precious hymen is still intact.

Or they end up staying in a relationship with a complete fuckwit because he was their first and "took" their virginity. Dumping them would mean it was not worth it. That they "lost" their virginity for nothing.

Or keep quiet about sexual abuse /rape because that means they lost their virginity. And that's precious,and important, and what they are valued by.

Or it would become a nice little tool for bullies to shun,shame,humiliate and abuse a girl simply by spreading a few half truths and rumours.

Things are shit now, but guess what? They always have been! In fact they were even worse when a woman's value was what she could bring to a marriage and her only possession was her "reputation " and the sacred virginity.

PineappleSeahorse · 22/07/2019 20:15

P.S I know that not everyone is heterosexual but society is almost always discussing heterosexual intercourse when speaking of virginity.

DtPeabodysLoosePants · 22/07/2019 20:37

I keep reading about it being better to be married if you then split up but I got fuck all in my divorce and I'm a single mum of 3 on benefits. My exH had a pension worth twice mine and the female judge just said I had the potential to make up the difference when I return to work. No other assets. Oh but he had thousands hidden away in his gfs account. Judge wasn't interested. So marriage for me was of no benefit. It took 6 years to get that divorce through too. If I hadn't have been married then I'd have been free of him as soon as he walked out the door to ow.

Endofthedays · 22/07/2019 20:42

Did you have a house Peabody, and what about maintenance? Were you awarded nothing at all?

DtPeabodysLoosePants · 22/07/2019 20:44

No house. I rent the house we rented together as he moved out. He does pay csa for the children. Nothing from the divorce itself though.

IABUQueen · 22/07/2019 20:47

yoursarcasm I specifically mentioned that by virginity I didn’t mean a hymen... just like how men don’t have one...

I meant encouraging youth to not engage in sexual activity at all until they are emotionally mature and ready...

Therefore... yes... anal and whatever still counts as not valuing virginity.

I’m more talking about removing the society pressure on young girls and boys to “experiment with their body”... and to stop applauding that.. because we keep sending the wrong message to youth.

I certainly don’t appreciate having half the concept I tried to explain be quoted while leaving out the other half which contradicts your interpretation of my words.

Virginity does not equal hymen.. I think we are all beyond that point

soapona · 22/07/2019 20:59

@YourSarcasmIsDripping Don't be ridiculous! I mean women should be encouraged to wait until 18 or later if they wish. No they don't need to have their hymen protected. I would just like their emotions protected at a vulnerable stage of development. I find what you said offensive, the start of these crappy relationships leads to a cycle give young girls a chance!

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soapona · 22/07/2019 21:07

@SpartacusAutisticusAHF Not being in a lesbian relationship I struggle to comment on them. What do you think?

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Fraggling · 22/07/2019 21:07

'@Fraggling like the pill, legalised abortion has for the most part benefitted men not women!'

Ok, so what's your plan for abortion rights?

Ie answer the question pls

Fraggling · 22/07/2019 21:12

' I would just like their emotions protected at a vulnerable stage of development'

Ie under 18

Now I am the last one to namalt but bloody hell if there are prizes being handed out for teen angst then it ain't the girls winning them :D

Listening to 80s radio other day number of male singers warbling about unrequited love was quite weird tbh!

SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 22/07/2019 21:14

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Fraggling · 22/07/2019 21:14

Mostly they were singing about sitting indoors looking at photos of the girls they liked and feeling sad for hours.

3 in a row.

I was like wtf go down the pub talk to your mates this isn't healthy!

Anyway.

What are your plans for abortion rights please?

soapona · 22/07/2019 21:15

@Fraggling It's difficult we have created a total mess. Sometimes attitudes to contraception are relaxed as we have this fall back of abortion. I'm not saying it not got immediate convenience, but who suffers long term women! Emotionally and physically. You know I've seen message boards on here where woman are taken along by the same boyfriend (notice that boyfriend not husband so not so invested) about 10 times for abortion. It can be used as a weapon against us. These are not the victories they are made out to be. Pushed into sex and uncommitted relationships then have our bodies filled with synthetic hormones or vacuuming out our wombs.

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