I'm not convinced that feminism has helped the women it should have?

[soapona]

I think on these discussion boards and on my Facebook I see women. They don't insist on marriage so they partner remains married to the ex for years and year, they live together and I wonder what will happen should the man die. I also see women with no security living with men with no intentions of marrying and having children. Women moving in with men too soon. In the days gone by women would and could have insisted on commitment. So now the position for women is worse hanging round waiting for a proposal.

I know they don't have to I'm fairly wealthy and a single parent so have choices and always have. I don't have a lot to gain from marriage.

I'm not sure things have got better for women we are expected to do a lot now two incomes are the usual for a mortgage instead of one in the olden days . So it's a given women work, do the most childcare do we honestly think these thing will change when the power imbalance is there from the beginning?

Also the women marrying "beneath themselves", that's not the correct term but a man earning less and not likely to come into a decent inheritance. What is the point in getting married there if you're a women? Perhaps if the woman is wealthy to avoid inheritance tax for her children but other than that I don't know?

So would woman not be happier marrying the same or above and insisting on marriage early on, like it was a given in days gone by?

Surely Women are now in very risky positions due to this living together in a man's property. I see much more domestic abuse these days. I believe the stats are much higher with non married couples. Surely living together unmarried has been caused by equality and feminism and the very people feminists has been trying to help they've hindered.

Tell me how life is for women and girls in communities / countries where contraception / abortion are not generally available / legal please :)

Answer TLDR

They Die All The Fucking Time

+++ loads and loads of other crap. Prison for miscarriage anyone? Child brides?

Come on op let's hear how awesome it is.

I'm not nearly as informed as many of the posters on here but I've tried to educate myself on feminism. I'm not sure it can be viewed as a universal dialogue as it's so diverse.

Some of it is really profound to me and has made me challenge my views as a male, some of it is fairly obvious but unquestionably logical, and some of it seems mainly to be well-educated professional women moaning that they can't be CEOs (which vanishingly few men ever get to be).

Don't be ridiculous!

I'm not. I grew up and spent my teens in a country that "valued virginity" , very Christian, very few single mothers and even less cohabiting. All the things you want and seem to put on a pedestal.

Those things I mentioned? They are lived experiences of me and my friends back then. If you find that offensive I honestly don't give two shits. One of my friends hanged herself rather than having to admit she was raped and not a virgin anymore, I had friends whose lives were made awful by claims they were loose,had sex etc. the truth didn't matter, I had friends stay in horrible relationships because the guy involved was their first(at 18,so no protection by age there) or so they wouldn't be seen as jumping from man to man. I've cleaned their blood and wiped their tears, I've ended up in A&E myself for standing up for them, I've had fucked up notions about live and relationships myself and being made feel less for not being a virgin anymore. I've been laughed at, silenced and dismissed for reporting several sexual assaults. No one fucking supported me because reputation oh and I was too giggly and I had big tits,so you know, maybe I deserved it. I was referred to by a teacher as a "bitch in heat". I could go on.

You find my views offensive? So what? Deal with it... I've had to live it.

YourSacrasm

I’m sorry for the experiences you have been through. I grew up in a similar community.. but I do think you are projecting your experience onto OP and getting too defensive/accusative.

It’s not black or white. I’m sure there is a middle ground.

I might be , I can own up to that. But there's something I can't quite put my finger on it that tells me this is more about "the right way to do things/be a woman" and have a go at feminism rather than concern for women and girls. Might be just me tho.

there is something in OP's replies

@YourSarcasmIsDripping I understand where you are coming from, women should never feel they should stay with someone because it was their first, that is ludicrous. Slut shaming is dreadful and is man made, nevertheless that does not make casual relationship with no commitment good for women or children.

Wtf? The pill and abortion rights are bad for women? No they're not, you absolute weirdo.

@MorrisZapp perhaps you can elaborate on your beliefs rather than just insulting me. I'm wanting to raise a discussion ,has it really benefitted women and society if so how?

n both these cases it really isn't possible to look at it clearly as just a male female issue, or even mainly that. It's an issue where middle class and educated women (the ones with the nice new jobs) are now entering the same workforce as te men were in, and are doing so mainly on the backs of the working classes and particularly working class women. Because working class people usually had two incomes already, but with housing prices increased that doesn't go as far. And working class women are the ones being rather poorly paid for that expensive childcare

SO FUCKING MUCH THIS.

And then they are berated for living in "subsidised" social housing.

Im on the housing threads a lot and see it All The Time

Then when i ask if they are willing to pay more for their childcare so the social housing tenant can afford not to claim tax credits /UC etc i never get an answer.

@SpartacusAutisticusAHF women could own property many many years ago. In fact women who owned land could vote before the suffragettes came along.

Of course I'm glad of Equality and proud of woman. I come from a family of women who are professionals and single parents when it was frowned and laughed upon to educate women especially working class girls in the 40/50s. Three girls 2 Drs and a teacher. Women need education it gives us choice and freedom. It's the single most important thing you can do for your daughters.

This is not about getting bank accounts or education it's post 1960s feminism. Where we don't get educated as an insurance policy if our marriage fails. We have to work and be exhausted all the time and leave our children in day care. It's not about the "choice" to work anymore.

Not only do no longer have choice in working but we now have choice in relationships taking away by society expectations that we should cohabit and have children before marriage because by the time you get to talking about kids your clock is ticking. All the cards with the man.

society expectations that we should cohabit and have children before marriage

There's no such expectations?

Honestly, this thread shows the biggest problem feminism has had in spades ,which is women who don't toe the line, accepting the right ideas, or who ask the wrong kinds of questions, are treated like shit.

It's clear where the TRAs learned their technique.

OP, I think you are blaming women, especially feminists, for the behaviour of men, and for the shortcomings of society.

@SpartacusAutisticusAHF I've been fortunate and had choices. I see and hear of women suffering everyday and I question it, that's all!

@TheInebriati I am not intending on blaming women. I just wonder if feminist and society are on the right course. It's ok to question thing you know.

You know, pointing out problems with feminism, or even particular feminist ideas, or unexpected effects, isn't blaming women.

That's the attitude of a 13 year old, any discussion is some kind of personal attack.

It's not like most women have really been feminists anyway, so it wouldn't be blaming all women even if it was a personal attack.

There is something very dodgy about berating a woman for having a mixed opinion on feminism because feminism is meant to speak for women.