Woman seeking others to practice her sexology techniques on

[thatdamnedwoman]

Sorry for the weird subject header but this is bizarre...

A friend of mine, a young lesbian, is a member of a lesbian social group which has been a real life-line for her. She's made friends and received a lot of support thanks to the women in the group. I'm not part of it but I know some of the members and they're good, positive, supportive women.

Today my young acquaintance received a PM from one of the group whom she has met and whom I'll call L. L is apparently training to be a holistic sexologist and is looking for volunteers on whom she can practice. It involves breathing techniques and intimate touching, including anal massage. The message makes it clear that L will be fully clothed and rubber-gloved up at all times and that she will not be providing emotional support or sexual satisfaction: this is about her learning how peoples' bodies work and what makes some people feel sexual. L welcomes everyone to volunteer regardless of sex, gender or body.

I seem to remember a thread a few weeks ago about sex cults where women were lured in by the promise of yoga and breathing techniques and discovering their sexuality, only to be exploited. Alarm bells are ringing loudly.

The young lesbian who received this invitation asked me what I thought and I've told her to say no and tell some of the older women what's happened. The whole thing — the imbalance of power, the activity going on behind closed doors, the 'but you volunteered for anal massage so you can't complain' aspect of it horrify me. And then I began wondering about the person who sent it. They are a member of a lesbian group and one presumes they are female and a lesbian — but who really knows?

Anyone encountered anything like this elsewhere? Do I need to flag it up to the group or is this kind of intimate touching training perfectly legit?

How old is your friend? How old is the person training to be a sexologist.

Echoing what others have said about lack of ethics, why would they need to pm someone secretly and not advertise openly in the group? Any reputable therapist of any kind would be providing emotional support and putting the client's safety first.

Do you think your friend will feel pressured into saying yes.

Definitely report to any group leaders.

Red flags everywhere, totally dodgy, I hope she runs in the opposite direction and reports the person because it sounds quite strange predatory behaviour.

I've contacted one of the older women, someone I've known for years, who is part of the group. She's going to try and find out more and I'll do the same.

My older friend confirms that L is in the group and doesn't seem to have any concerns about her. She thinks the whole thing sounds very odd but I suspect wonders whether I've got the wrong end of the stick. If I hadn't read some of the threads on here about cuddle parties and so on I might have wondered that too, I suppose.

HeadInTheClouds

Brian from Hull and his Yoni. Once read/seen cannot be unread/seen.

That thread is hilarious. I'm not sure if I should thank you...

Very pleased you have contacted another member of the group for support Woman The contact does sound worrying.

Anyone encountered anything like this elsewhere? Do I need to flag it up to the group or is this kind of intimate touching training perfectly legit?

Yes

I am extremely familiar with this kind of thing

I contributed significantly to the naked cuddle party thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3587786-Naked-Yoga-and-Cuddle-Parties-Lap-Dancing-Clubs-for-the-Woke

which provides multiple links to similar insanity

Your friend is in dangerous company and is likely at risk of sexual and financial exploitation.

I would be happy to either post more in person or by PM, if you have any names or organisations I will either know about them or be able to check them out quickly - having said that I'm v pushed for time so it may take me a while to reply

If your friend is very involved in this group and shows any signs of drinking the kool aid it is best to identify the relevant sources and direct her to them so she can discover the truth for herself. Once vulnerable people get attached to recruiters in these kinds of networks they can become resistant to thinking anything that is not "positive" about the group

also be extremely careful about reporting to group leaders using your real name or identifying contact details

Apologies for pointing out the obvious but it is not uncommon for support groups to be compromised by cults and it may be possible that the person you contact will be compromised

I can actually imagine some young woman falling for this sort of course as something that legitimately train them to help people.

You can find out more about the courses offered by this shady organisation here (cached for safety)

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20181017223222/www.ukcht.uk/courses.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20181017223222/www.ukcht.uk/courses.html

extremely dubious to say the least

they teach courses in tarot cards, "energy healing" (often a cover for intimate massage) and other dubious stuff

please be extremely careful about contacting anyone from this organisation

I can actually imagine some young woman falling for this sort of course as something that legitimately train them to help people.

Unfortunately many people training in "trauma sensitive" and "trauma informed" psychotherapy are being trained by quacks and charlatans who promote intimate massage as a way of "clearing blockages" and "releasing trauma".

It is not just obviously dubious organisations such as UKCHT that are promoting this kind of thing

I will soon be posting about a therapist with connections to various UK child protection charities who has worked extensively with dozens of UK police forces on issues relating to sexual crimes and sexual trauma and yet who was trained by and promotes on her professional website various "body psychotherapists" and "energy therapists" who are demonstrably involved with tantric sex cults.

Just getting my ducks in a row

a youtube video I posted on the cuddle parties three has been removed

here it is again on a different channel

an old made for TV film that illustrates very helpfully how vulnerable women suffering from somatoform disorder (aka psychosomatic illness - previously known as hysterical conversion) can be brainwashed by psychotherapists involved in cults

I would strongly advise interested readers to download / save the video as it is so helpful that the bad guys / girls may try to get it removed from youtube

Please be advised that while the narrative re recruitment, "brainwashing" and familial alienation is very accurate the story re cult "rescue" (actually kidnap) and deprogramming is very dated and this strategy is not recommended

also, for some insight into why naive women of all ages might get involved in extremely dubious organisations you only need cast an eye over some of the "offerings" at Woman Fest 2019 to see the connections with the OP

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20190714113837/www.womanfest.co.uk/the-womens-circle1.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20190714113837/www.womanfest.co.uk/the-womens-circle1.html

The Women's Circle events are heavily influenced by the Path of Pollen, a strange training in Bee Shamanism offered by The Sacred Trust another dubious to say the least pseudo-spiritual organisation claiming secret teachings that enable followers to travel to different universes and communicate with alien entities via the consumption of "nektars" which are apparently magical substances emanating from the intimate regions of the female body.

The reason it is all not so secret is that lots of the "Bee Shamanism" stuff promoted by the Path of Pollen was C&Pd from other sources according to a former "Bee Maiden" (scroll down)

<a class="break-all" href="http://web.archive.org/web/20151014190931/hootingyard.org/archives/336" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20151014190931/hootingyard.org/archives/336

That's not even the half of it, there is even more plagiarism from another source that I will not mention for now as would be outing.

re Simon Buxton and the Path of Pollen and the Sacred Trust, also see

www.ipo.gov.uk/t-challenge-decision-results/o16407.pdf

so you have a "women's Circle" at Woman Fest 19 that promotes the Path of Pollen, a highly dubious cult (many would say sex cult) that is founded in a book that heavily plagiarised other books, the author of whom is a man, a Mr Simon Buxton

I have met a few "Bee Maidens' IRL

No surprise to anyone that they are often "sacred sexual healers" / "tantric masseuses" and the like.

They all like to call themselves Melissa

Avoid, avoid would be my advice

Has anyone any thoughts on the Sea School of Embodiment?

www.seaschoolofembodiment.com/

I've had a quick read through what's on the net and noted that they train Cuddle Party trainers and the bloke involved is into tantra, but this is so far outside my experience / knowledge that I have no idea what any of it means. The course I looked at was £3,500, so there's money to be made with this woo!

Has anyone any thoughts on the Sea School of Embodiment?

Bollocks? Do you need any more than that?

I noticed that they offer a Dark Eros workshop that is clearly BDSM and that the bloke involved founded the organisation whose code of conduct he abides by...

Has anyone any thoughts on the Sea School of Embodiment?

A very, very sinister organisation run by people who may be vulnerable and troubled, may be criminal, may be both

These people are sadly well known to me although I do not know them personally.

I have spoken to neighbours are very concerned that they are putting vulnerable people at risk. The neighbours are correct.

Sadly they have some links to fairly senior NHS mental health professionals in their area. the South West of England is sadly very bad for this kind of thing

For various reasons I am a little restricted in what I can say other than avoid, avoid avoid

The words "embodiment" and "embodied" are massive red flags when it comes to psychotherapists

I noticed that they offer a Dark Eros workshop that is clearly BDSM

Yes, I believe that they got that wording from one of the dirty old men of the UK neo-tantra scene (based between Cornwall and the Czech Republic) the appalling John Hawken (don't google without a sick bag at the ready)

and that the bloke involved founded the organisation whose code of conduct he abides by...

A mundane, every day occurrence in the kerayzee world of predatory sex cults

here you go (don't say I didn't warn you about needing a sick bag)

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20181022170152/www.thepathsoftransformation.com/?lang=en&article=7" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20181022170152/www.thepathsoftransformation.com/?lang=en&article=7

I've alerted a couple of people in the group and sent them links and asked them to pass the word around that this is dodgy and potentially
dangerous stuff.

I have no idea what all this embodiment stuff is about. There is language there but what it's telling me I don't know. It gives me the creeps.

Like so many like him Hawken trained as a psychotherapist and also had a background in experimental theatre.

Experimental theatre, especially puppetry is a red flag when combined with other indicators. I suspect that the process of method acting can, in some instances, be used to place people under undue influence.

Of course a person might be a psychotherapist with a background in experimental theatre, puppetry and method acting and be a great therapist. It is just that this particular career trajectory is a familiar one for me researching these networks.

Back to Hawken, he then went on to undertake various fake pseudo-shamanic trainings with a very nasty, extremely dangerous highly abusive sex cult / militia and has extensive connections to several different very serious, dangerous cults, so I would advise extreme caution about researching him

He represents his horrible training courses as "empowering" and targets extremely vulnerable people. His activities are mostly centred around Eastern Europe however he travels internationally and he has followers, including at least one NHS mental health professional in a fairly senior position in London. He has a significant following in London and in the South West, especially in Devon and Cornwall.

Unlike many posters here I am completely accepting of anyone who wants to experiment with BDSM. I have different views on a range of issues to most posters here

However I am in no doubt that John Hawken, the Sea School of Embodiment and the various rouges involved in these enterprises are involved in very harmful activities and are a danger not only to women but to vulnerable men.

Men get raped, blackmailed and otherwise harmed in these groups as well as women,

They claim to teach empowerment and freedom but they hurt and enslave people. They participate in the cultural genocide of various tribal / indigenous groups.

It is a huge risk me posting this stuff here, I really, really want to help to stop people getting hurt.

Please, please be careful around these kids of predators

Just in case no-one has posted it yet, this was the infamous Brian from Hull (he of the yoni massage) thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_classics/1729276-Yoni-Vaginal-Massage

I have no idea what all this embodiment stuff is about. There is language there but what it's telling me I don't know. It gives me the creeps.

That's my evening gone for a burton

i can't resist answering this

"embodiment" is a word used by all kinds of dangerous charlatans

The problem is that some of them are well meaning and misguided and believe that they are helping people uncover and release traumatic memories of historic sexual abuse, usually by massaging them or directing invisible energy around the body

In some instances the "therapist does not actually touch the client, they simply wave their hands about over them.

At the other extreme massages can be of various body orifices including the mouth, nostrils and, more usually the anus and or genitals.

At one end it is all unicorns, dream catchers and hippy floaty stuff, at the other it is extreme sexual and financial abuse and exploitation including sex trafficking, rape, blackmail and child sexual abuse.

Many vulnerable people truly believe that their parent/s molested them or that their loved ones are baby eating satanists because they had some kind of batshit body psychotherapy where "memories" of incest and satanic ritual abuse surfaced.

Just have a look at how many UKCP / BACP accredited counsellor and psychotherapists trained in body psychotherapy to see the extent of the problem

I can post more later but I am simply exhausted right now

Want to see some men, very well known to me (not personally) who offer yoni massage?

www.my5.tv/the-sex-business/season-2/episode-3-2-3

I would not recommend these services and as for whether the man are involved in cults, I cannot s=post about this safely so will have to leave it at that

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_classics/1729276-Yoni-Vaginal-Massage

eeeeew

I probably know who this is and may have in fact met him lol

I have never, ever had a yoni massage, just for the record

I've know a couple of women involved with a particularly dodgy subset/splitters of the OTO, both were heavily under the influence of some seriously creepy dude who seemed have an amazing ability to hone in on vulnerable women, particularly those just out of abusive relationships. All these styles, techniques and "therapies" mentioned above sound horribly familiar.

@FlapsMagazine

The OTO had a major division between 2 different groups, then it further splintered, as happens with all kinds of groups, there were chaoists, the Illuminates of Thanateros

I knew people on the peripherals of these groups but never got heavily involved with them, partly because they all seemed either deluded and vulnerable or creepy and predatory. Some were just pathetic people whose intelligence was compromised by drugs and / or alcohol.

I would love to learn more if you would like to share, feel free to PM me if you are comfortable to do so :)