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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Police called to National Theatre to deal with gender critical feminists sitting on chairs

596 replies

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 05/07/2019 17:53

twitter.com/DadRogd/status/1147181198231429124 has picture of the unfortunate police officer sent to investigate.

Earlier in his tweet thread he says:

National Theatre Green Room bar just refused to serve us. Their grounds? Allegedly, we are a political group with views a member of staff finds offensive. So they offend a dozen customers instead.

Problem is apparently with t-shirt worn by Anne Ruzylo sporting a dictionary definition of a lesbian. As someone else has pointed out the NT is in breach of the Equality Act, given that sexual orientation and sex are both protected characteristics. I wonder how this will play out.

OP posts:
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tobee · 07/07/2019 18:42

Yes well I read more as a quick piece of news reporting rather than an opinion piece.

tobee · 07/07/2019 18:43

Well BatShite you have your opinion. And I have mine. You argue my points and seem equally invested in this as me. Smile

BatShite · 07/07/2019 18:46

Not invested tbh, more amused at this argument and ther emotion and passion seemingly behind it. Amused may be the wrong word, interested might be better in all honesty. Its odd, to see such fire on here these days so, I do see it as a good thing really. Though, it does seem an odd argument, when you have already agreed thast its 'sloppy journalism' to do whats been done, which is basically the same as saying, on this article, she did not do her job right, to those looking at the situation. Yet, there stands the possibility that she did her job exactly as asked too. But those saying she did not do her job right, you are pulling up also Smile

BatShite · 07/07/2019 18:48

Ah good, it seems to have been updated with annes actual reply too. Alls good now, bit late though. But much better.

BatShite · 07/07/2019 18:51

Glad they left the quote from NT with the placard rubbish on though, as it shows how desperate NT are to find excuses for them basically, refusing service to lesbians for being openly lesbian and wearing tshirts celebrating that.

The fact that lesbian = women who loves women, would appparently offend trans staff, is bizzare really as..if your view is transwomen are women, then wheres the problem? I could understand it a little more if it was the 'female homosexual' tshirts I guess, though that some people were wearing tshirts with dictionary definitions on that might possibly offend staff members..is still a shitty reason to tell people they cannot be served. Which they know, hence the scrabbling for 'placards and disturbances' nonsense, that the police will be able to answer also as nonsense I would think, and the multiple videos from different angles of the incident, which show no disruptive behaviour, placards or staff abuse.

tobee · 07/07/2019 18:56

Well, as I say, I have a tendency to be emotional in my opinions. What struck me originally was the immediate assumption that it was a deliberate conspiracy which I don't see. There are so many times in this debate where we see unquestioning following of the TRA ideology that it's tempting to see conspiracy everywhere.

Anyway, even though I'm pretty much in the minority here, I signed up to being put to task and I still enjoy hearing differing opinions.Smile

The only thing is it's slightly embarrassing to feel I have derailed the thread when the focus is meant to be the NT behaviour.

BatShite · 07/07/2019 19:02

There are so many times in this debate where we see unquestioning following of the TRA ideology that it's tempting to see conspiracy everywhere.

Thats true I guess. It does affect me sometimes..when I know how powerful this supposedly opressed group actually are.

I don't think you have derailed at all. But I would say that given it was my post that started the 'derailing' Blush I do think the 'jorunalism' quaility of the first article was a big part of this story. But glad its been updated to a reasonable standard finally so..we can go back now to discussing how horrendous it is for an establishment to refuse service to lesbians because they are lesbian, then come up with endless (debunked) excuses of why they did it, when intent and reason are perfectly clear.

tobee · 07/07/2019 19:06

Actually I haven't checked the update . Blush

BatShite · 07/07/2019 19:08

The update balances the story as it should have been at the start.

Kind of wish the police had been approached to confirm wether the 'they were being abusive and had placards' or 'we were sitting having a drink, tried to be served and were refused as had on lesbian tshirts, no placards in sight' story is correct. Though not sure if they would answer or not.

Popchyk · 07/07/2019 19:13

The Mirror has a piece.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/national-theatre-accused-gender-sexuality-17486857

BatShite · 07/07/2019 19:14

Oh no, the guardian one is NOT updated except with 'Ruzylo has been approached by the Observer for comment.'..unless I missed than on first read. Still the original story is full of bullshit thats been proven bullshit. Not a good look really.

I for some reason thought the

inews.co.uk/news/uk/national-theatre-deny-gender-sexuality-discrimination-after-lesbian-group-asked-leave/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Link given earlier was the updated guardian article Blush

Seems 'Zaina Alibhai' is a much much better journalist than 'Vanessa Thorpe' as she actually gets both sides. Still unsure though, if its the journalists incompetance, or what she was told to do, given the lack of updates even though the truth has been out since midday (if not earlier really) yesteday.

BatShite · 07/07/2019 19:16

Wish the mirror article would have said something about

'However, National Theatre says the "reluctant" decision was reached after witnesses saw the group refuse "to put placards out of sight that featured messages which upset other customers" and display "abusive behaviour" toward staff.'

This placard thing being debunked basically by endless videos.

That thats been reached for as an excuse, is ridiculous.

BatShite · 07/07/2019 19:16

And I kind of wish someone would push NT for more info on 'abusive behaviour towards staff' too.

placemats · 07/07/2019 19:17

As many previous posters have said before, I'll happily fund a crowdjustice fund group on this.

This discrimination and homophobia against lesbians has to stop. Now.

Tobee Stop already. It's clear and decisive. If you don't get it then that's fine. The vast majority do.

Go Anne!

BatShite · 07/07/2019 19:21

This discrimination and homophobia against lesbians has to stop. Now.

Agreed of course. It should be called out for what it is, and no excuses (which can be proven as lies) accepted, nor the NTs side be made out as the truth, when it could not be further from it. Shame on the guardian/observer for allowing such a ridiculous one sided 'article' to be posted in the first place, let alone not updated.

Thingybob · 07/07/2019 19:24

I'm wondering if the placard accusation is a result of someone getting their words mixed up?

I am reminded of the time when I heard a younger person talk about having a cool placard on their top when they meant slogan.

BatShite · 07/07/2019 19:29

It doesnt sound like its a mixup with slogan, given the wording used IMO. I expect both the placard excuse, plus tghe abuse towards staff, came at a late date, once NT has realised that yes, their decision did breach the equality act in a couple of ways. Scarbbling for reasons then came, and thats what was came up with. Unfortunately for them, multiple videos from multiple agles show that its just bollocks. Their cctv is rquested would show the same. I highly doubt there was any abusive behaviour towards staff. As such, wold like NT to expand upon what this behaviour actually was. I suspects its simply the presence of out and proud lesbians in the bar that made whoever feel 'unsafe'.

SadlyMissTaken · 07/07/2019 19:30

I don't understand why they are all presenting the placard line as undisputed even after speaking to Anne.

Floisme · 07/07/2019 19:31

Is anyone out there going to ask the NT what exactly the disturbances were and whether they can speak to these witnesses? Surely basic human curiosity is the number one requirement for a journalist?

Popchyk · 07/07/2019 19:31

In The Mirror article:

"The duty manager came and spoke to a few of us and said that there were trans staff coming on duty at the next shift change who could find our t-shirts upsetting and could be seen as hateful".

Popchyk · 07/07/2019 19:32

Meanwhile, the chap with his "Bum boys" t-shirt was served drinks by staff.

Aspley · 07/07/2019 19:33

@SadlyMissTaken

I understand, they are desperately scrabbling around to cover their arses in any upcoming discrimination case.
Smearing the victim (especially if it is a lesbian - see what the Guardian did to Bindel) seems to part of the course these days in certain quarters

Ereshkigal · 07/07/2019 19:34

Won't they have to prove it if there's a case? And lying about it doesn't look good.

Floisme · 07/07/2019 19:37

Surely in the 21st century there was someone there with the means and the foresight to take a photo of these mysterious placards?

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