The Times: Feminists celebrate U-turn on self-identification in Scotland as women’s prisons review trans policy

[TimeLady]

Women’s rights activists hope the victory will trigger a rethink in England and Wales

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/feminists-celebrate-u-turn-on-self-identification-in-scotland-as-women-s-prisons-review-trans-policy-gr3vtzwj9?shareToken=66c4b70d2d576c49e7e57d6ed0c3a801

So basically the SNP are paying lobby groups to lobby MPs of all parties according to the SNP party line agreed between small groups of men. How is this not corruption in government and anti democratic?

I would be paying close attention to what's in the *closets of that "small group of men"

*Metaphorically speaking, of course

Fascinating re Engender's membership criteria.

It seems them exclude transmen.

No doubt they'd label me a TERF and yet, my feminism includes transmen. Because they are female.

Thanks to howdidwegethere for the post. Interesting - so Engender do not comprehend the problems self I'd will bring, nothing to worry our stupid little heads over then!

4 women, 2 biologically so. The first and last word going to the "big lass", and note that Mridul Wadhwa is also a trustee for Ywca Scotland-its a small world but some folk are very active, wish I had their energy.

The Sunday Times has learnt that Scotland’s prison service, which already has a de facto self-identification policy, is to review it after a whistleblower said the tiny number of trans prisoners in Scotland’s female jails had been responsible for a “quite horrific” number of incidents towards women inmates, including threats of rape.

Despite us telling them and telling them and writing to them and holding meetings and fighting to get this into the press and pointing out that it was bloody obvious that women would suffer 'incidents', they insisted it would be fine. And they're only now reconsidering after a 'quite horrific number of incidents' have happened. To imprisoned, vulnerable women dependent on state care, who have been failed comprehensively.

Jesus.

NOW enough women have been harmed that they'll give it another bit of a think. I hope those women sue the crap out of the government for this utter failure of duty of care.

Does beg the question - if it took a whistleblower coming forwards to make people stop and think that they needed to do something to stop this happening once the public heard about it, at what point were they planning to say it’s not working?

While obviously to most folk one incident would be too many and two would show it’s not an isolated thing, you’d have thought that at some point in risk assessing outing male sex offenders (regardless of their gender identity) in with female prisoners that there was a risk that there could be a problem or two so what were their plans to deal with it? Send each individual back to male prisons / solitary confinement/ ?? after they assaulted female prisoners one/two/five/ten/+ times? Not at all? Or when there had been 5/10/100/more attacks? Or not at all?

If this didn’t come up in the risk assessment and there was no plan for the risk then that is a huge failure and completely negligent and unacceptable.

Does beg the question - if it took a whistleblower coming forwards to make people stop and think that they needed to do something to stop this happening once the public heard about it, at what point were they planning to say it’s not working?

Prison staff spoke out last year about the impact of housing dangerous male prisoners in the female estate.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3242264-Transgender-murders-in-Scottish-womens-prison

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3242178-Transgender-killers-split-up-by-prison-chiefs

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/outrage-transgender-prisoner-living-woman-12022675
extract:
"A source said: “The rest of them shouldn’t have bothered even entering.

“It was surreal. Everybody knew it wasn’t very fair, but nobody was allowed to say it.

“The women inmates have had to accept that Stewart is being allowed to live as a woman, despite not having had surgery.

“That means she is in the showers at the same time as other inmates, which some have found quite awkard.

see also comments by Andrea Albutt on female prisoners fear/ discomfort:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3225546-Self-ID-and-womens-prisons

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3269144-Prison-Governors-speak-directly-of-their-concerns-for-vulnerable-women

Relevant thread re transgender prison policy:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3192486-Lord-Patel-Karen-Jones-thread-anyone-want-to-go-to-House-of-Lords-to-talk-to-Lord-Patel

Does beg the question - if it took a whistleblower coming forwards to make people stop and think that they needed to do something to stop this happening once the public heard about it, at what point were they planning to say it’s not working?
They will never admit it.

Does beg the question - if it took a whistleblower coming forwards to make people stop and think that they needed to do something to stop this happening once the public heard about it, at what point were they planning to say it’s not working?

Good question. They won't ever admit it because how could they without admitting how abjectly they failed, and how appallingly sexist these decisions were. And the review will be held to the tune of TRA political lobby rage that to even review this policy that has caused horrific number of incidents against women is transphobic.

Good write up in The Spectator by Madelaine Kearns

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/06/women-are-fighting-back-against-scotlands-gender-identity-policies/

McAlpine also noted another concern: that gender extremism may ‘really backfire’ for the LGBT movement in the long run and lose the gay community ‘natural allies’. This is already happening. In the United States, where I live, the annual GLAAD Accelerating Acceptance report shows a noticeable drop in young people’s acceptance of LGBTQ people. In 2016 the number of Americans aged between 18 to 34 who felt comfortable socialising with LGBTQ people was 63 per cent; in 2017, it was 53 per cent; and in 2018, it was 45 per cent.

And guess who the report finds to be ‘driving the dilution of acceptance’? Surprise, surprise – it’s ‘young women whose overall comfort levels plunged from 64 per cent in 2017 to 52 per cent in 2018.’ It turns out that being displaced in our own sports and being forced to give up our spaces, scholarships, shortlists and more is bit off-putting. Who knew?

I found this interesting from the spectator article:

. In the United States, where I live, the annual GLAAD Accelerating Acceptance report shows a noticeable drop in young people’s acceptance of LGBTQ people. In 2016 the number of Americans aged between 18 to 34 who felt comfortable socialising with LGBTQ people was 63 per cent; in 2017, it was 53 per cent; and in 2018, it was 45 per cent.

And guess who the report finds to be ‘driving the dilution of acceptance’? Surprise, surprise – it’s ‘young women whose overall comfort levels plunged from 64 per cent in 2017 to 52 per cent in 2018.’ It turns out that being displaced in our own sports and being forced to give up our spaces, scholarships, shortlists and more is bit off-putting. Who knew?

Well Munroe Bergdorf definitely does think young people have an issue with this. They have repeatedly stated young feminists are all onboard and it’s old hag feminists that object. They aren’t the only one either, it’s a common theme amongst TRA’s.

Jessica I suspect that is because when, for example, they use women’s spaces no young women object to them and they don’t notice what the young women actually do; which is leave and not return.

Birdsfoottrefoil

I have a 17 year old DD with autism and she tells me all of her friends think the same way she and I do, strongly gender critical, but that even her lesbian friends won’t speak out against trans ideology because they’re too afraid of being labelled phobic. Instead they say things like, some lesbians have a penis but I’m not personally into it. They know it’s a lie but can’t say a thing.

The funding by the Scottish government exposed on the Twitter link posted by ItsAllGoingToBeFine should be the subject of a prime time TV documentary.

The funding by the Scottish government exposed on the Twitter link posted by ItsAllGoingToBeFine should be the subject of a prime time TV documentary.

But it's not going to be because the media networks in the UK are pushing the agenda.

Anyone know what various political parties in Scotland say about self id?

I know that broadly speaking SNP & Greens are for it. Looks like the Scottish Labour leader is too. How about Lib Dems & Tories?

Not that I'd really fancy voting Tory even if they were the only ones opposed to it.

Looks like I'm probably becoming politically homeless.

Sorry the Libdems are very TWAW and I believe one of their politicians suggested that anyone who didn't agree didn't belong in the party. A statement that wasn't contradicted by anyone else.

And guess who the report finds to be ‘driving the dilution of acceptance’? Surprise, surprise – it’s ‘young women whose overall comfort levels plunged from 64 per cent in 2017 to 52 per cent in 2018.’ It turns out that being displaced in our own sports and being forced to give up our spaces, scholarships, shortlists and more is bit off-putting. Who knew?

And wouldn't it be interesting to know what proportion of these young women are lesbians, who have been placed under such pressure by the demands of TRAs?

I'm glad GLAAD surveys are reflecting reality, the T is definitely harmful to the LGB and does not have public support.

As for the way our taxes are being wasted on those shocking lobby groups, It's an absolute disgrace, £301k of tax money to say we have no opinion just do what that lot say! FFS