The Times: Feminists celebrate U-turn on self-identification in Scotland as women’s prisons review trans policy

[TimeLady]

Women’s rights activists hope the victory will trigger a rethink in England and Wales

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/feminists-celebrate-u-turn-on-self-identification-in-scotland-as-women-s-prisons-review-trans-policy-gr3vtzwj9?shareToken=66c4b70d2d576c49e7e57d6ed0c3a801

Ohmigod if Nicola Sturgeon doesn't squirm when she reads this paragraph then she has a hide like a rhinoceros

The group Engender, which calls itself “Scotland’s feminist policy and advocacy organisation”, said in a response to the consultation with some other women’s groups that it had “very few specific comments to make” and “instead of formulating our own response to the detail of the proposals, we would commend for consideration Scottish Trans Alliance’s submission”. Engender’s income last year was £335,000, of which £301,000 came from the Scottish government.

Hats off the writer of the article

juells

I read it as
"New grassroots feminist groups, organised online, sprang up to fight the plans after [the plans] were backed by Scotland’s main women’s organisation, which is 90% funded by the Scottish government."

Is is the case that “Engender” is not representing the interests of women and girls...am I reading this correctly? They need scrutiny surely. Who are the players?

"The disclosure will dismay equality campaigners..."

Equality my arse. So-called tw rights and self-id are diametrically opposite women's rights. They are opposed to and incompatible with our rights.

Well I didn't think anything this weekend could make me laugh harder than that Labour LGBT thread but James Morton claiming we have always been happy to engage in discussion runs it a close second.

Effectively ScotGov is paying orgs to lobby ScotGov (and paying some orgs multiple times under multiple names)

This is absolutely outrageous. Institution and government capture at the highest levels. An inquiry should take place to see exactly how this corrupt state of affairs came to exist.

A comment under the article:

Too much time, creative effort and attention is going into moulding society, "forcing" issues like you would force rhubarb. A tremendous exercise in elevating the pursuit of improving minority, sectional, interests while neglecting the collective interest.

I love the way the Scots have a good level of class consciousness and can immediately point to the top-down, bourgeois nature of extremist transactivism.

Not read through the thread (sorry)

But I'm not sure this is a good thing, they know noone will voted for then when the publish, so they are delaying.

Think about it, what out come will stop people voting for them.

finally some good news. I think it came as a big surprise for a lot of men, that they cannot silence women to the same extent anymore.

This is the staff team at Engender. There are about six of them. Hard to gauge from the cartoons (nice to spend taxpayers' cash on a cartoonist eh?) but they all appear to be white, middle-class, quite young??

www.engender.org.uk/content/staff/

I follow the director of Engender on Twitter and was waiting for her to tweet about the attack on Julie Bindel, given it took place in the same city where Engender is based. I waited and waited and eventually this was her first tweet of the day the morning after the attack:

twitter.com/EmmaRitch/status/1136528482769473537

I know I’m repeating others bit this man is a LIAR and a gaslighter.

We see you James!

James Morton, of the Scottish Trans Alliance, said: “We appreciate that there are genuinely held concerns about gender recognition reform and we have always been happy to engage in discussion to resolve those concerns. But there is also a concerted campaign trying to roll back the existing legal rights of trans people

Shouldn’t have added- well done to all you brillaint, strong women in Scotland who have brought this u turn about.

You really have made a difference to the lives of millions of women and girls.

*should

Engender and the other women's organisations who support self-ID did this podcast on GRA reform a year ago almost to the day. I remember listening at the time, and finding it to be utterly condescending. Dismissing the concerns of ordinary women, who none of them have consulted.

Already, one year on, it's not ageing well:

scottishequalitiesorganisations.blogspot.com/2019/05/transcript-of-on-engender-podcast-on.html

Love the comments. Especially this one. I posted once before about the lovely German changing rooms at swimming pools, and here it is confirmed:

I was recently in a female only swimming pool changing room in Germany. Everyone was naked: the elderly, the young and beautiful, the fit, the fat and the pregnant. A small girl was happily showering, surrounded by a healthy display of the full range of unashamed female body types. As body dysmorphia problems such as anorexia are at epidemic levels, this type of in-gender education is vital. A penis would not have been a welcome addition regardless of the gender self-Identification of its owner.

I now go to a swimming pool regularly near where I live in Ireland and the women's changing room is an open one, with women coyly changing near their lockers. The showers are separate cubicles. I guess women are more shy about their bodies here, even among themselves. How much more so, should men be allowed in!

Excellent article. Fills me with hope that this madness can be stopped.

FAQs
Here are some answers to the most frequently asked questions about Engender.

Why is individual membership only open to women?

Engender thinks that people of all genders are disadvantaged by sexism, but that women’s experience of sexism is distinct. We believe that it is valuable to provide space for women to come together to discuss their inequality, and to work creatively to challenge that inequality. Trans women are very welcome to become members of Engender and attend our women-only events. We support self-ID, and therefore welcome trans women, non-trans women, and those who identify as women.

Is Engender inclusive of all women?

We try to do all we can to ensure we are welcoming to all women who want to be involved in Engender. This includes black, minority and ethnic women, lesbian, bisexual and trans women, disabled women, refugee and asylum seeking women, women of all ages, carers, poorer women, and women of all faiths and none. We do this in a range of ways including holding events around the country, hosting webinars and online consultations, offering free membership to any woman, providing transport and childcare costs for events, and actively reaching out to groups who are often under-represented in the feminist movement.

We know there is always more that we can be doing to allow all women to be involved, and we are always happy to hear feedback on what we could be doing better, so please contact us on [email protected] if you have any comments or suggestions.

Who can come to your events?

Many of Engender’s events are open to the public, and everyone is welcome to attend, including men and non-binary people. We also hold women-only events, focus groups and consultations, as well as events which are only open to our members. Members often receive priority bookings for our events.

Most of our events are free of charge, and we can provide transport and caring costs.

Is Engender intersectional?

Engender believes feminism must be intersectional, and we strive to conduct all of our policy work using an intersectional lens. We work with a range of organisations to help us do this, and encourage partner organisations to recognise that all women’s lived experiences are different.

If you have any ideas or comments about how to ensure our work stays intersectional, or want to chat about how to make your own work more inclusive of all women, we’d love to hear from you! Contact Alys to share your views.

👆they welcome anyone who thinks they are a woman.

Jeez. Anyone to their women only events anyone to discuss women’s inequality

They welcome. NON TRANS WOMEN

is that just an ordinary woman then or what is that ?

So basically the SNP are paying lobby groups to lobby MPs of all parties according to the SNP party line agreed between small groups of men. How is this not corruption in government and anti democratic?

(I an not so naive to think this is just limited to the SNP but they are the ones currently in power in Scotland)

Exactly Birds. Makes you wonder if it happens in other govt consultations.

If it hadn’t been for all those “Terfy” women, they’d have got away with it. The bastards.

So basically the SNP are paying lobby groups to lobby MPs of all parties according to the SNP party line agreed between small groups of men. How is this not corruption in government and anti democratic?

Yep.

One of our next steps of progress is to get all some of the funding for Engender, EN, STA etc redirected to actual women's orgs (and intersex orgs like DSD Families, 90k, didn't EN get?!) and to get funding for policy analysts like Murray Blackburn McKenzie.

We support self-ID, and therefore welcome trans women, non-trans women, and those who identify as women.

LOL what a confused sentence. Who are the people who identify as women who aren't either "trans women" or "non-trans women"? And I'm wondering why they didn't use "cis" given how much kool aid they've slurped.

They don't really appear to know what they're talking about, either when it comes to feminism, or anti woman activism.

All that money and power behind the trans juggernaut and they have still been derailed by the wonderful GC women of Scotland. Congratulations.