Is twitter having a purge today?

[Novina]

(Frequent lurker, occasional poster, new name.)

Just tried to find drEM and glosswitch. Neither account exists.

Always helpful to think not of individual people or individual comments but of patterns of behaviour.

This is something Dr Em always does and why her voice is so indispensable. I truly hope she soon returns to the public Twitter sphere. I absolutely love her. I don't think any woman should ever be castigated for robustly asserting boundaries.

This absoutely ^^

For those unaware of DrEm's work, see her Medium site:
medium.com/@doctorEm/charities-institutional-climates-conducive-to-child-sexual-abuse-d0180c24526e

medium.com/@doctorEm/the-trojan-unicorn-queer-theory-and-paedophilia-part-i-a0cf30ef7bfa

Also that we should always be aware how easily false narratives/accusations can be created by some & then inadvertantly replicated & repeated by well-meaning people.

I think boatyardblues meant that kenesis was mistaken thinking that having a baby gets you sufficient money and suitable housing. If only.

Exactly this.

But if he thought he were mistaken he'd back off after numerous women told him he was wrong, not double down and start gaslighting women for his words.

No matter how much of a nasty person Kinesis is I think what was worse was watching other women fawn over him and attack Dr Em who had only been polite and stood up for women. It is not Dr Em's fault that she makes mincemeat of people like Kinesis.
As always happens people supported males over an advocate for women's rights. It must be such a kick in the teeth.

I used to follow Kinesis. I wanted to understand the trans side of the argument fully, mainly because I didn't understand it and it seemed to me kind of incredible that so many politicians & rights groups could be as wrong as I thought they were. I was glad of a trans person who would explain how they're experiencing dysphoria etc to people they knew are GC. I stopped interacting with K a while back because I was noticing what seemed like manipulative behaviour. I'd never seen anything quite as bad as that tweet on prostitution, but there was one thread where K claimed that women absolutely needed TW's support to fight Self ID, and the implication was that in exchange we needed to come to a compromise which ultimately meant ceding our rights. Often when K was challenged on something that either didn't make sense or was sexist, K would try to switch the focus of the conversation onto how bad K's had it. It's possible the person posting previously didn't notice this pattern. For me it changes how I'd view the sincerity of K's apology. But, having been there, I also understand why a lot of GC women want to remain in good terms with people like Kinesis. It's so unnerving to be told from all sides - official bodies, scientists, the government - that black is white and if you think otherwise you're a hateful bigot. To have someone tell you you're not a bigot, that you have reasonable concerns, and for that person to be trans, and therefore someone who has currency with the powers that be - that feels reassuring, when you really want reassurance.

because I was noticing what seemed like manipulative behaviour.

Recognising & understanding potential patterns of controlling behaviour is important.
Some patterns of behaviour eg coercive control/ narcissitic control can be demonstrated by people of both sexes & of any gender identity.

See thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3452784-Coercive-Control-a-need-for-better-awareness

useful article:
thoughtcatalog.com/shahida-arabi/2017/11/50-shades-of-gaslighting-the-disturbing-signs-an-abuser-is-twisting-your-reality/

I think the trouble with this person is that a lot of the prominent female people in the GC online movement, such as Helen Joyce and Jane Clare Jones follow and support. As well as Graham Linehan.

So it's hard for someone to call out the misogyny and narcissism, which is quite obvious to some women who are used to seeing these behaviour patterns.

They get called "extremist GC" or similar.

To clarify, what I mean is that with so much high profile support some people who display problematic behaviour patterns become almost untouchable because they are perceived as part of the GC royalty, as it were.

Agreed Erishkigal, what hope do feminists like Dr Em have against people like Helen Joyce, Glinner and the clique around some of the males who say they are women?

It must be so frustrating to have her expertise and concerns dismissed to just be nice and so others can try to benefit from 'I have a trans friend so'. I've been frustrated watching it.

Thanks for those ROwantrees. Stepping back from Twitter makes it easier to see the manipulation, I found. If someone has managed to persuade you to accept something unreasonable by means of emotional manipulation, if you have a few days away from them it's easier to spot that. Or if you test it by trying to explain to a third, uninvolved, person why you're going along with something that harms you.

Again, speaking generally: it seems to me that the posher the person - especially those in the mediating class - the less likely they are to recognise abuse patterns that anyone who'd spent ten seconds anywhere near the women's sector would spot immediately. Then, being posh, they double down when it's pointed out to them because a superiority instinct kicks in and they can't admit the lessers could possibly suss on quicker than them.

Journalists, writers, academics.

I really think this is class issue as much as it's a feminist issue.

I don't need blindingly obvious abuse pattern behaviour mediated for me by people who nothing of this sector. I think some high profile people could do with a period of reflection, frankly.

who know nothing - sorry for typo.

I think its possible that some people who have been identified as infulential/with power have been deliberately friended, manipulated etc
We are all susceptable to being made a 'flying monkey' though some either 'naive' or 'toxic' more likely, see previous linked article:

(extract)
"Essentially the narcissist spins this web of a false reality and casts it out among this group of people. Then people subscribe to that reality. It’s like they become engulfed into that web of a false reality that they think is very real because the narcissist appears so convincing with an enormous amount of energy and emotion about the topic.

It really seems like it could be true to a certain point, especially to people who just don’t know. But the people who are subscribing and fully knowing, the toxic, who are partaking in this because they’re getting something out of it, they will gladly subscribe to that reality even if they know that it’s a false reality.

Why does the narcissist use flying monkeys?
First of all they like to discredit the witness. They like to discredit you so that you don’t reveal your truth or so that maybe you’ll just be so ashamed and terrified that you won’t say anything, instead you’ll just swallow it all.

Maybe they know that you have the balls to tell the truth and tell people in your community, your family, your circle of friends, your office and they don’t want you to reveal that truth. So they have to discredit you so that people aren’t really sure who’s telling the truth.
Maybe it looks that you are totally the one who’s lying in this situation when that’s the exact opposite of reality." (continues)

medium.com/@OwnYourReality/flying-monkeys-the-narcissists-tool-for-the-smear-campaign-798daf7a59c0

I agree with you Lang but Dr Em is also an academic so I think bucks the trend there.

Maybe it is life experience as well as class?

Thank you R0wantrees your sources on abusive behaviour are useful to spot the pattern and confirm what I feel I'm seeing.

I remember one thread where GC posters were circling appreciatively round a trans person. Then someone tweeted asking why they had used the ladies toilets at a recent women’s event. It was jarring when placed alongside the other posts.

A few years ago when I knew very little about this and thought there were only a tiny number of transgender people, I'd have accepted trans women in the loo and not thought too much about it. The end result of the aggressive campaigning of TRAs is that now I'm not happy about it at all. I would prefer it if we went back to no GRCs, no option to change sex on birth certificate, guaranteed sex-segregated facilities wherever women, girls and young children are in need of them (and men and boys) and a real push to end gender stereotyping. Genie's out of the bottle, though.

I love Dr Em's insight, what a shame she has gone from twitter.

I started the boundaries and allies thread after seeing a WhatsApp message form Debbie making light of their use of female toilets. My eyes were pinged open on that thread, I have since looked at Kenisis timeline and find they present as self indulgent, misogynistic and pretty confused. Why are women centering men in this?

I won't got into how many supposedly female centered feminists protect abusive transwomen, Twitter is rife with them

I think these transwomen being promoted and protected be Glinner is forcing women to smile and be nice to them.
Plus Debbie seems to have inserted himself everywhere like what transwomen did in the women's sector. This must silence some for fear of upsetting them.

It's a process. I used to think those foxes in the henhouse were okay too until I really saw it. Maybe others will too.

Pachyderm I'm worried how many feminist voices we will lose in the meantime.

I also understand why a lot of GC women want to remain in good terms with people like Kinesis. It's so unnerving to be told from all sides - official bodies, scientists, the government - that black is white and if you think otherwise you're a hateful bigot. To have someone tell you you're not a bigot, that you have reasonable concerns, and for that person to be trans, and therefore someone who has currency with the powers that be - that feels reassuring, when you really want reassurance.

Yes, I completely understand why this is appealing to people who are new to this clusterfuck. However, Kinesis, and the 'transrational' thing are at least the third variation on the theme of 'engage with us, we're not like the other TRAs' that I have seen and it always implodes and is useless because they're ultimately just interested in being the special ones with special permissions, rather than coming up with genuine solutions that don't shit on women and children.

I'm no longer interested in engaging with any of them until they address this.

I get the feeling there might have been a lot of nastiness behind the scenes from women because Dr Em wont submit. Just what I'm picking up on Twitter.

Good women get run off leaving behind the appeasers, narcissists and self-promoters (and men). It's a familiar dynamic.

I saw one feminist board, quite a while back now, where trans ideology took hold. All the feminists left or were banned and literally all that was left was a few authoritarian moderators and men. That was the way they wanted it. This was before trans was really a thing, but it was a foretaste of what was to come.

I left Twitter last year, it really wasn't a good place for me to be involved in.I followed Dr EM and I still see and read updates, what a fabulous woman she is. And a loss to the lunacy that is Twitter, she would cut through all the bullshit. I'm glad to find another outlet for her no nonsense views.

Solidarity to Dr Em. She is brilliant