transgender hate crime

[DuploTower]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48756370

Transgender hate crime up by 81%

I thought someone else would have posted this as it's practically headline on BBC.

This is sad. Nobody should be being abused.

I did notice that even on the BBC they said that the increase was due to more confidence in reporting incidents and changes in the way police record crimes. Not necessarily an increase in incidents then.

basically what I'm trying to say is, if you take a list of say all the phone calls to the police, and you separate each phone call into a category. they count the number that falls into each category.

This is not information on actual crime or incidents statistics.

It's rubbish. All part of the TRA narrative to create victim hood, get more funding for 'education programmes and get laws passed to silence any opposition. Wish they'd take actual crime seriously.

I was coming on to post about this. Goes without saying: Nobody should face threats or violence for being who they are or wearing what they want.

That goes equally for trans people and for women and anyone else.(and we know that 2 or 3 women are killed a week in the UK from sex-based abuse and murder so half the population, women, already very clearly DO know how horrible it is living with the fear of abuse and assault and what that feels like). Many many threads are on here where we talk about how instinctive it is to modify our behaviour to avoid verbal abuse, attack, rape and worse.

So I feel solidarity with anyone facing intimidation or who has been verbally or physically threatened or attacked, male or female.

But I would also like to see a breakdown of what type of incident these statistics refer to. We can see from women and men being visited by the police to talk about what they have said or asked in public, that the bar seems to be being lowered for what merits police attention on behalf of trans people or trans individuals.

We have also seen that some intimidation from TRAs (like at the Bristol Jam jar event in 2018 where women were trapped on a staircase by masked TRAs and verbally abused) gets no police attention at all.
(Many MN threads on this but here’s one: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3228462-To-be-shocked-that-this-is-happening-in-Britain-in-2018)

Lesbians also get kicked out of public events by police just by being there as a peaceful ticket holder like everyone else not even having said a word to anyone

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3539529-Lesbians-removed-from-Accenture-inclusive-trans-event-by-7-police-officers

Though it’s good to see police involvement with the Person who went for Julie Bindel in Edinburgh just recently and also in the punching to the ground at Speakers’ corner of Maria McLachlan. This did get to court and the person was found guilty. But then the judge made her use female pronouns for describing her not biologically female attacker.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3223856-Court-and-enforced-use-of-preferred-pronouns

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3225577-Men-making-victims-use-female-pronouns-in-court-petition

Sorry to go on.. I also think it’s interesting that the BBC’s new LGBT reporter’s report specific to this charity’s work calls Stonewall an ‘equal rights charity’. Presumably Stonewall approved that since this is their story that the BBC is reporting on?

Firstly what rights do trans people lack that others have?

Secondly is being an ‘equal rights charity’ a new direction for Stonewall? Are Stonewall saying that we don’t need descriptions of basic facts about humans any more... like sex or sexual orientation? Are they saying since it’s all fluid and self-described, that everything is anecdotal now even official statistics, and Stonewall just want equal rights for everyone?

That looks like taking away the right of LGB people to campaign for their own interests by the same megacharity that claims to represent their interests and publicly fundraises on that exact basis?

What other equal rights causes will Stonewall be taking on now?

Where does this approach leave people who can’t identify out of the characteristics that are used to oppress them- like sex, race, age, pregnancy etc?

Ruth Hunt, their Chief Executive hasn’t left Stonewall yet AFAIK and so this would be an interesting time for the charity to be setting a new course (unless Stonewall have dropped the LGB for a while and I had missed that..?)

^^ I meant to also explicitly include sexual orientation in that list of examples of characteristics above eg same-sex attraction.

Are they including women in their ‘heart of the debate’ and among those in fear, do you reckon?

I do fear. Somewhat for myself (as I can’t see men as women and thus am permanently guilty of hate think, I suppose), more so for women and girls deprived of all-female facilities, greatly worried for the teenage girls demanding radical body changes.

I have the total rage too.

If they took out the crimes reported by a lawyer and a very incompetent IT Manager the numbers would look very different.

Also to quote transphobia is everywhere is just inaccurate and meaningless as we know because transphobia includes stating biological facts and definitions in the dictionary.

And says that transgender people have it harder than most - sweeping statement that doesnt reflect the very different circumstances of transgender people where some wield comsiderable power. Others spend their time oppressing other trans people with different views on sex and gender. It totally ignores as usual the oppression and vulnerability and misogyny directed towards women. I would say women as a sex class are a much more vulnerable group.

Just shows the crap biased so called journalism of the BBC. They are a disgrace

A "Hate Crime" is a statutory crime where there is an aggravating factor of discriminatory hatred.

A "Hate Incident" is anything, literally anything, literally anyone might say they take offence at, report, and is recorded as such by the police.

The BBC report speaks of "Hate crime incidents" which is clear as mud.

The unfortunate truth is that the current debate might indeed increase negativity towards the trans community.

But a logical person might wonder whether

1. the negativity is wholly ingrained and merely revealed by visibility

OR

2. the demands being made by some trans activists are so unreasonable that the woman in the street immediately reacts with justifiable anger, which is immediately condemned as transphobia

Of course, both these might come into play. But any community perniciously demanding special rights over and above those everyone else has will always make themselves unpopular.

It would be interesting to see the breakdown between types of crimes, proportion prosecuted/convicted, demographical changes, number of reports per individual etc. I also wonder wether it’s concerning (because crimes have gone up) or a good thing (because crimeshave not gone up but people are more comfortable reporting).

I would very much like a break down if these hate crimes.

The crimes quoted in the article are horrible. Trans people DO experience violence and abuse, and it is horrible and needs to be stopped.

But I would like to know how many of these crimes are committed, like the one described, by men, rather than by women / feminists.

And as hard as we need to protect our right to identify on the basis of our sex, we also need to stand against violence and abuse against Trans people who are simply trying to live their lives.

It's such a meaningless term though. Anything short of falling to your knees and worshipping them is a hate crime by some TRAs standards

There was a similar article in the Guardian recently. Their journalists aren’t very numerate nor do they analyse figures very well. Firstly being trans is unusual so there will be few hate crimes. As any maths teacher will tell you, if the number of crimes goes from 1 to 2 that’s a 100% increase but it’s still very small. Secondly what is the definition of hate crime and has it changed? As far as I can see the bar is set pretty low for trans hate crime so what are we actually talking about? As I recall also comparing the number of hate crimes against the numbers of trans people the actual likelihood of being a victim of a hate crime was about 1%. So the article could have been headed ‘99% of trans people do not suffer recorded hate crime’. Not that I would have expected anything this thoughtful in the Guardian.

I've watched the news and have every sympathy with anyone the subject of actual hate crime.

In our area they are running an interview with Sue Pascoe who has been categorised as a vulnerable person by the police and states is scared to leave the house. That would be Sue who just last month wanted us all to vote to send them to the European Parliament.

But I would like to know how many of these crimes are committed, like the one described, by men, rather than by women / feminists.

Me too. If misgendering qualifies as a hate crime then conversely demanding that I mis-sex people should be too.

Because I find a man identifying as a woman and insisting the rest of us address them as female just as offensive as an African American would find being told that some white bloke is black.

I am surprised it isn’t higher: I am sure reading Mumsnet must be a recordable hate crime by now.

That article lists one example of horrible threatening behaviour which is disgusting. I do wonder what threats former Master of the Hunt Sue Pascoe has had that has led to being classed as vulnerable by North Yorkshire Police?

I also wonder how many women have reported repeated abuse and been classed as vulnerable by police? How many women have been assaulted and had abuse screamed at them by random men? Virtually every single woman I know. And yet we can't report those incidents because abusing women simply for being a woman is not a hate crime.

I suspect that it because the system would simply collapse if every single woman reported it as a hate crime every time some man called her a slag for rejecting his advances?

"Transgender people have their existence debated on a near daily basis across UK media, and several activists believe this negative attention reinforces the poor treatment they receive on our streets".

The utter state of BBC "journalism" today.

Embarrassing.

People are seeing through this, it's one of the times the general public have totally predicted the stages of the TRA narrative well in advance.

I think any assault or abusive behaviour towards anyone in entirely unacceptable. Absolutely and totally. People attacking others deserve harsh sanctions and re-education should form a part of that.
Most of the assault and abuse behaviour is based in prejudice of one sort or another - whether it be homophobic, Islamophobic, anti-Semitic, classist attack’s on the homeless or reactionary Christians abusing women entering ToP clinics.
Transgender individuals should be entitled to the same protection in law as any other individuals. They should not have to be fearful of attacks.

I don’t think suggesting they are trans identifying males or females is hate crime personally but in most situations there is no need to consider how they choose to present to the world. Dave calling himself Sharon and wearing high heels isn’t hurting anyone on the same aeroplane. The small hotel I was in this week had a transgender receptionist who was clearly not a biological woman; their appearance was a parody of femininity. That was irrelevant as they were attentive, helpful, charming and competent at their job. I didn’t need to refer to their appearance (although we chatted about their talon like nails) nor discuss their biological status. It was a non- issue. They are entitled to do their job and live free from fear of attack and undoubtedly if they walked home alone at night they were more likely to be attacked by some far right yobs. Protecting transgender people from that fear is essential because it makes life safer for us all. Our personal thoughts on whether you can reassign sex doesn’t matter.
There are a small number of specific issues where their biological sex does matter and where physiology is important.

Transgender individuals should be entitled to the same protection in law as any other individuals.

They have this.

The example given on the website by the transwoman who had a man shouting at them and threatening them is horrible. I have lots of sympathy for that person- it’s terrible.
But I have had horrible men shouting at me in the street, threatening behaviour, sexual threats made. Also, I have been grabbed and leered at while walking through a crowded place. All these have happened countless times since I was 12 years old. I can’t report that as misogyny is not considered a hate crime. As a woman I’m considered fair game for hateful language, sexual objectification and threats.
And I know I’m one of the lucky ones amongst us. I’ve never been raped or been the victim of a serious sexual assault.
Also agree with what others have said. This includes people reporting women for saying ‘that person is not a woman’. The statistics are skewed by thought crimes.

The small hotel I was in this week had a transgender receptionist who was clearly not a biological woman; their appearance was a parody of femininity. That was irrelevant...

But it may be very relevant to female members of staff who have to share what were previously single sex facilities with this person.

These aren't actual hate crimes.
They're just reports.
Not prosecutions, not convictions, not arrests, not charges.
Just perceived hurty feelz.

Would 'misgendering' or 'limericking' count in these stats?
Fair to assume, yes.

What a steaming pile of bullshit the BBC is.
This is deliberate misrepresentation.