Is female impersonation/drag offensive?

[dannybb]

Hi. As a teenage hairdressing apprentice I used to do a drag act in my spare time - a few decades ago. With more time on my hands I'm now thinking of returning to female impersonation - doing drag queen bingo and entertainment mainly in old peoples homes etc.

While I am (and always will be) very respectful of women I'm wondering if the era of men dressing as women to provide entertainment has had its day.

Has this now become offensive or inappropriate?

Any responses much appreciated!

Pleased that I'm not the only one to find it cringy, distasteful and mocking.

Lily Savage started out as a drag act - I think he is a partner who obviously didn’t become famous on the back of the act.

And another thing... I flipping hate male actors playing women in theatre when a woman actor could have done it just as well, if not better. For instance, Miss Trunchball in Matilda was played brilliantly by a woman in the film, yet we've seen two blokes play her (really badly) at the theatre. I was seriously pissed off when we went to see Annie at the theatre, and Miss Hannigan was also played by a really awful bloke who totally dragged it up. That role should have 100% been played by a woman. So insulting.

For some reason I always think that Tim Curry player her in the film. Which he didn’t. I have no idea why I think that!

Aren't a lot of drag acts characters? I know some are but I do't have much sense of how common that is.

I wonder if the reason some seem better than others might be that some, like Dame Edna, are actually talented, and a lot aren't. THat makes a big difference in a setting where people are pushing the limits somewhat.

I suppose they all are really. I can’t imagine many people paying to watch someone dressed like my mum sitting there knitting and grumbling about their arthritis.

I don't know if you extended the idea it could be quite funny. I posted upthread a video of a female comedian in her manly-man character, she and another female comedian have a set of elderly lady characters they do together that are more or less grumbling, and it's pretty darn funny.

*Oh my god, that dancing, just incredible

although to be fair to the rest of the male sex, I don't think many humans move like that*

To be fair to both sexes- there aren't many women who can move like that either.

If more men had the opportunity to do ballet there would probably be roughly equal % or men and women who can dance like that, and roughly equal men and women who are too "clunky" to even try. As it is there are far more female ballet dancers purely because "it's a girl thing". Billy Elliot is not that far from the truth

See also gymnastics. Also see boxing and other martial arts which are equally artistic in their own way- but male orientated.

LordProf, I think Tim Curry was in that film as the baddie bloke who wanted to adopt Annie.

Thank you everyone for all the replies.

It has got me thinking. The last thing I want to do is be offensive, misogynistic and support restrictive stereotypes.

Part of my motivation is to escape from the stereo types and conformity. Certainly I'm not into parodying women at their expense. Rather, I prefer the joke to be on me: i.e. men and masculinity. Nor do I want to be involved in causing people to be "trapped in an old persons home being 'entertained' by a man impersonating women."

So, in respect of everything that has been said, I'm going to put my plan aside.

The last thing I'd want is to cause my attempted escape from conformity to result in the strengthening the stereotypes that can confine others.

As a man who has worked with, and for, women for most of life my I have been gifted with an opportunity to see 'how the other half live'. This, I feel, has been a privilege.

So what to do? How to exist beyond the restrictions? Not to be a new type of man but perhaps how to be a new type of person while never denying the reality of biology...

Phew! That's a challenge!

Ever seen the New Romantics? I think that’s due a comeback - let boys be boys and all that.

I like drag, I don't find it offensive in the slightest. Thing is, you're not going to keep everyone happy. Some (a lot of?) people enjoy watching it so if you enjoy doing it I say go ahead!

In my view *Drag" expresses the deepest misogyny; it objectifies women and renders them less than human as, in the case of "drag", sexually caricatured objects solely for male entertainment.

As females we are acutely aware of the sexualisation and objectification of females by men. it renders us as objects that are not considered as independent, autonomous humans in the same way that men are. Females do not exist solely for male entertainment.

This is part of the mockery that "drag" expresses: that women exist as nothing more than an object for male entertainment.

The same is true for pole dancing, lap dancing, stripping, prostitution , pornography. All for men's sexual entertainment and gratification. The women involved are not seen as or treated as autonomous humans, they are treated as if they exist for men to exploit in any way they choose and abuse.

But that is just my opinion.

Part of my motivation is to escape from the stereo types and conformity. Certainly I'm not into parodying women at their expense. Rather, I prefer the joke to be on me: i.e. men and masculinity.

I appreciate this type of drag and I’ve seen it at drag shows. Most shows I’ve been to have also been quite political. It never felt like they were mocking women.

Has anyone ever seen a live "drag" act depicting a woman in a business suit or ordinary clothes while at work?

What kind of "drag" acts has anyone seen? What are they like?

It has got me thinking. The last thing I want to do is be offensive, misogynistic and support restrictive stereotypes.

That's good to hear, dannybb. You sound like a thoughtful person. I wish you the best of luck!

I like drag, I don't find it offensive in the slightest. Thing is, you're not going to keep everyone happy. Some (a lot of?) people enjoy watching it so if you enjoy doing it I say go ahead!

I agree. You go for it if you want, OP. You're never going to be able to please all of the people all of the time.

I don't find it offensive. In years gone by, in the music hall era, there were male impersonators, usually young women dressed up as and behaving like boys or young men and everyone found that highly amusing.

It never used to bother me, I didn't find it funny but I really didn't care about it. But now it makes me uncomfortable and as others have said I see it as an equivalent to black face.

The turning point for me was funnily enough an episode of Ru Paul's Drag Race in which the drag queens were taught pole fitness by a group of woman. One of the men was completely repulsed by the women performing and was making fake retching movements talking about the woman waving her vagina in the air and I though, gosh you really hate women don't you.

That was a trigger moment for me to do some more research into it and am now firmly in the no camp.

Bluerussian I wonder why male drag is now so prevalent and female drag has fallen completely by the wayside?

I don't see the point more than anything. I've seen Taylor Mac twice- years and years ago at the Edinburgh Fringe and years ago in New York; although Taylor Mac is a homosexual man in outrageous costumes,
wigs and make-up and isn't a drag queen. There is a political and narrative thread to his performances.

I also Courtney Act one year at the Fringe, just after her appearance in Celebrity Big Brother. She was amusing and personable but I wouldn't rush back.

So far as part of the mockery that "drag" expresses: that women exist as nothing more than an object for male entertainment - the audience at Courtney Act was pretty equal men and women- possibly slightly more women.

I think the question that needs to be asked here is this:

Why do these men feel compelled to perform their fantasised and sexualised caricatures of women?

It's not even really female impersonation it's pitching at something different to actual females, an imaginary conjured hyper feminine ideal from historical models. I like the art of it. Just don't say you're a woman love x

I hope someone shoots me before I'm trapped in an old persons home being 'entertained' by a man impersonating women.
Yes, this!
Drag is lame and dated. Reminds me of Benny Hill type "humour".

If you want to wear a dress and makeup, go for it, but don't do pretend woman, be a man in a dress and makeup.

I've never enjoyed drag...I've tried, but just don't. I find it mostly vulgar and offensive. The over-the top theatrical, nasty, catty embodiment of all the most negative feminine traits.