Is female impersonation/drag offensive?

[dannybb]

Hi. As a teenage hairdressing apprentice I used to do a drag act in my spare time - a few decades ago. With more time on my hands I'm now thinking of returning to female impersonation - doing drag queen bingo and entertainment mainly in old peoples homes etc.

While I am (and always will be) very respectful of women I'm wondering if the era of men dressing as women to provide entertainment has had its day.

Has this now become offensive or inappropriate?

Any responses much appreciated!

and do you get equally offended when theres a dame in a panto? or were you too deprived to be taken to one as a kid

I actually never was taken to one as a child. And part of it was because of the men dressing up as women thing. I found it creepy as hell and didn't want to go. And I feel the same as an adult. I've never taken my kids to a pantomime and they've never shown any interest in going to one.

How about exploring the extravagance and over the top that lies within the male?
Go for it.

Women dressing in drag is a big thing now, I know several performers, Male and female, they are all fantastic and enchanting on stage and lovely people. Not offensive to me at all, in fact I'm going to a drag night this weekend.

It's nice that gay males have an outlet for creativity and art. That doesn't need to come at the expense of women. Last I checked, feminism centered the needs and rights of women, so I'm not all that concerned about the available options for any males, gay or straight, to perform.

For those of you saying this is nothing like blackface, let's stop and consider why it was wrong. Yes, blacks were enslaved, abused, segregated, and oppressed. For those in the privileged class to mock and demean the marginalized in the name of entertainment, it demonstrated that blacks remained unequal.

And how is it all that different for women in 2019? Need a current events review? Enslavement, check. Read about the thousands of Yazidi sex slaves here: www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/yazidi-survivors-of-isis-sex-slavery-told-to-give-up-their-children-1.3878983?mode=amp

What about segregation? Check. Yes, there are still parts of the world where women don't have a seat at the table, here: www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/slideshows/10-worst-countries-for-gender-equality-ranked-by-perception?slide=10

Death because of biology? How about these lovely stories?
metro.co.uk/2018/05/01/hundreds-of-dead-baby-girls-have-been-found-in-pakistani-rubbish-dumps-7512995/

www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/feb/06/young-woman-dies-fourth-period-hut-tragedy-this-year-nepal

Modern feminism is not just for women in developed nations; indeed, it's our responsibly to speak for those women that cannot. It's for that reason that I say stereotyping, mocking, and belittling women is wrong, regardless of the venue or context. Blackface is wrong, and so is womanface. There is simply no justification for either.

They turn the source of our power, our beauty, our very womanness (and the source of our oppression by men) and they make it ugly and grotesque

That’s your opinion. I think they’re fabulous

So why not ape flamboyant men then? Why ape women?

“Women dressing in drag is a big thing now,“

It really, really isn’t.

“That’s your opinion. I think they’re fabulous star”
What all of them? Including the ones who make fish jokes?

and do you get equally offended when theres a dame in a panto?
Personally I see a dame as different - it's a distinct character rather than a parody of womanhood.
Traditionally it's offset by having a woman as principal boy.

‘Womanface’ is a ridiculous expression. ‘Blackface’ was created because the very people being oppressed were done so because of the colour of their skin and nothing else.

Woman’s faces don’t all have some distinctive feature that causes our oppression.
As is so often said, the root of our oppression is our biology not how much makeup we wear.
Drag acts don’t claim to be woman (except the actual female ones) it’s entertainment.
If drag performers started suggesting they were stoned rape victims in Iran or similar, then I too would be outraged. But they are not.
I actually think it’s empowering and the very notion of being able to dress like a ‘typical woman’ without needing to be a woman, is helping to smash the patriarchy rather than enhance it.

@Earlywalker

Just because women are oppressed does not negate black oppression. Both can be oppressed at the same time.
It might be crass to trot out the grossly high femicide rate of women even in the UK, to talk about the rapes, domestic violence, the losing custody of our kids to trans narcs, the fact our job prospects are so bleak that prostitution and surrogacy seem like reasonable options. And this is in a so called developed country. Femininity has been analyzed by feminists as the role expected of the subordinate class. Women who refuse to carry out femininity lose out in the job market. I personally know of a female lawyer who lost her job shortly after she stopped wearing make up. She didn't seem "together" enough.

In light of trans activism I think drag queens deserve to be analyzed. Women who didn't really care before about drag queens are starting to wonder what's actually funny about them

God, I wish I was cool.

@Earlywalker
They don't dress like typical women though do they, neither do transwomen. They're trying to resurrect some 1950s domesticated and/or pornified version of femininity that feminists have been trying to shelve.
Women have to perform femininity to get on in this world, to get decent jobs or to break into a particular field. I admire the women who resist femininity, I've never been able to, but I understand the social pressures that lead me to dye my hair blonde and wear mascara

Oh well, if it’s popular in Playa del Ingles it mustn’t be offensive or tasteless then

You don’t have to find it funny or enjoy it. It would be a pretty boring world if we all enjoyed the same things. If you don’t enjoy it, don’t go and watch it. Simple.

I personally don’t give a shit how anyone chooses to dress. Weather they like short skirts and masses of makeup or jeans and a jumper. And it is starting to tire that some ‘feminists’ are constantly implying that woman who make an effort with appearance are hurting other woman. It’s sexist in its own right.

Anyone care to address the fish joke thing?

White minstrels didn't claim to be black either. In fact, the understanding that they were white men IMPERSONATING black men and women was the whole premise of the act. Again, no difference to drag. The argument that somehow drag is acceptable but racial characterizations are not has no merit. Mocking an opposed class "because you can" just underscores the inequality that exists; women that support and defend this mystify me.

“And it is starting to tire that some ‘feminists’ are constantly implying that woman who make an effort with appearance are hurting other woman” Feminists don’t do that. Anti feminists say they do..

I think it is yes

@Earlywalker

I've always practiced femininity or "made an effort" as you put it. I understand the social pressures that force me to comply. When I became a single mother there's no way I would've got the bank job I did if I hadn't practiced femininity.

I think right there we have the problem. Practicing femininity, which is ascribed to the subordinate class, is redefined as "making an effort". Once you redefine it in this way, you have every right not to hire/ sack a woman based on her adherence to feminine stereotypes.

Rather than acknowledge her as a non conformist, you can sack her on the grounds she "never made an effort" as happened with my lawyer friend

@Earlywalker

Wearing make up is hardly a choice if you are in fact doing it so you don't get sacked for not making a good enough effort

What fish joke?
Woman are not getting sacked for not wearing makeup because drag acts exist. No one has the right to sack a woman for not wearing makeup. It is sex discrimination. Of course it still exists but it’s illegal.
Other people wearing makeup are not to blame for you feeling like you have too.

“What fish joke?”

Ah. Enough said.

@EarlyWalker I totally just read your fabulous in John Barrowman's voice lol