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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Liberated from what?

106 replies

Trebe · 23/06/2019 20:37

OK I'm gonna try and approach this topic in as delicate a way as possible as the last thread I started did not go down well.

However within that thread there was a question I asked when someone said 'we want to be liberated', that question was, liberated from what?

Now before that pisses anyone off, I'm not saying women have nothing to be liberated from. I'm actually in the camp of thought that says there are things every people and person need liberating from.

The question however stands in my mind as I would like to know what feminist activists feel they need liberating from?

I think I would like to figure out what it is feminists feel is actively confining and liberating women alone. What is it you wish to be liberated from and how will that happen?

I'll even start it off. I believe that the liberation from the natural reproductive cycle is paramount to not just the liberation from that cycle but from poverty. I believe that effective contraception that a woman gets to choose to use has liberated countless people.

I think if more women, especially in religious countries, were to have access to effective contraception the world would be a better place for all.

Sorry for starting the same thread twice but I put it in the wrong area, if a mod could delete the other thread it would be greatly appreciated.

OP posts:
ByGrabtharsHammarWhatASaving · 23/06/2019 21:03

I think for me it's the knowledge that our rights are on loan. As we have seen time and time again recently our rights can be bought, sold, distorted, or simply rescinded. As long as we live in a male dominated world our rights will need to be actively legislated and that legislation can be changed by men at any time if we step out of line. To be truly liberated from male power over women our rights and resources need to exist in a way that can't be removed or stolen by men. How? That's a good question. I don't know. But breaking the male stranglehold on legal and political power, and changing the way women are socialised will definitely be a part of it.

Original poster
Trebe · 23/06/2019 21:10

I wasn't expecting so quickly for someone to say men as one of the answers. I'm probably subjugated by the same men you are talking about. I'm not sure the world is run by 'men' in a way that attacking men in general would be helpful to the cause.

In the UK at one point in the past couple of years the 5 most politically powerful people in the UK were women.

What rights do you think I have as a general man that you don't? Also in what way do you think the western world is dominated by male power?

On the how, do you think it helps your cause when most men don't have any power and are getting screwed by the same system you are. We're all getting screwed by men and women in power.

OP posts:
BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 23/06/2019 21:14

ah, a one handed typist. haven't had one of these for a while.....

Original poster
Trebe · 23/06/2019 21:16

I actually have a keyboard for this conversation for once so i'm not using one hand.

Believe it or not I'm trying to understand.

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Chickenish · 23/06/2019 21:18

I believe one can use a keyboard one handed too

Original poster
Trebe · 23/06/2019 21:19

I'm guessing the saying means more than it appears on the surface, however it has flown completely over my head.

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DpWm · 23/06/2019 21:19

Anyone who posts on a feminist board with this
feminists don't like to admit that we live in a world that was created by men
(previous thread not this one)
Is going to be treated with at the very least a bit of suspicion.

But liberation from what you ask now?
Sex based oppression. Gender roles. Gender itself. Male supremacy. Patriarchy. Call it what you want. It's a very female issue.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 23/06/2019 21:20

this board is feminism chat. there is zero need for you to start a thread. for someone who actually wants to understand, this place is the most amazing resource. all you have to do is take the opportunity presented to you, read the words of the women who post here

is there a reason you're not doing that?

FermatsTheorem · 23/06/2019 21:20

medium.com/@NARAL/trumps-anti-woman-first-100-days-b4ef5a3123ad neatly illustrates Grabthar's point (and ties in with your comment about contraception, OP). Trump, surrounded by men, signs off on a bill axing funding for any overseas aid which has abortion as part of its provision. Pretty much the first thing he did.

The occasional woman PM is there on sufferance (I still think Theresa May was a prime example of the glass cliff in action), and doesn't really alter the fact that almost all people in positions of real power are men.

Other things I'd like liberating from: male violence and the ever-present threat of male violence.

Original poster
Trebe · 23/06/2019 21:21

@DpWmn, that is sort of what I'm getting at, is it a very female issue, is it a feminist issue or is it an issue that effects us all.

Also I have no problem with you being suspicious with me as long as your civil and we are having a discussion.

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FermatsTheorem · 23/06/2019 21:21

Ah, good spot DpWm. I come on these threads for the lurkers... but it seems like this one's not even worth that effort.

GCAcademic · 23/06/2019 21:22

I want to be liberated from males making constant tedious demands on my time. If you were actually interested in the issues you’re asking about, you’d be reading up about them. But I imagine that you’re not, and that you thought you’d come in here for a bit for entertainment.

Original poster
Trebe · 23/06/2019 21:24

@Bernards yes there is a reason I have started this type of discussion rather than me just reading what issues you have already brought up. I want to know what you personally think so we can discussion.

I feel just reading a one sided argument would be ridiculous in coming to a good conclusion. It's like me only watching fox news and thinking I have a nuanced view of the world.

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Original poster
Trebe · 23/06/2019 21:24

@DpWmn under what context did i say that?

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Original poster
Trebe · 23/06/2019 21:27

I'll try and defend it if I didn't already agree to concede it in whatever post that was.

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GCAcademic · 23/06/2019 21:27

yes there is a reason I have started this type of discussion rather than me just reading what issues you have already brought up. I want to know what you personally think so we can discussion.

Don’t be so lazy. Go and do some reading rather than demanding that women make your life easier.

I feel just reading a one sided argument would be ridiculous in coming to a good conclusion.

You know that you can exercise your brain and think of counter-arguments while you read, right? It’s called critical thinking.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 23/06/2019 21:28

I want to be liberated from males making constant tedious demands on my time

very much this

Do the reading

fotheringhay · 23/06/2019 21:29

I'd like to be liberated from the ironing right now (hence MNing)

Original poster
Trebe · 23/06/2019 21:30

@GC yes it is called critical thinking. I just think critical thinking talking with the better educated about the ideas they have is much more enlightening than just reading and finding out the counter-argument.

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BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 23/06/2019 21:30

These 'I just want to understaaaaand feminism' types all seem to address the women here in the same way. all posts addressed to 'you', this universal fantasy woman they have in their heads, who is here to entertain them for the evening

urgh

Original poster
Trebe · 23/06/2019 21:32

Also I don't get to see what people are actually thinking. I'm fully aware that this topic would be slightly controversial on this board, a controversial topic usually stokes up honesty. In a thread where everyone thinks you're being dishonest and you are getting honesty from every side is an enlightening place to be in.

OP posts:
MIdgebabe · 23/06/2019 21:32

Gender expectations, roles and norms. These are cultural things.

Addressing a couple of your points

I have a legal right to be paid the same as men for the same role. CUlture dictates I won’t be

Yes many men do badly in society, but as a rule of thumb, all else ( eg social class) being equal, women will be worse off then the men.

Original poster
Trebe · 23/06/2019 21:33

@BernardsBlack its you that keeps bringing up that i'm a man and somehow that makes my argument less worthy. That's very hypocritical.

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FamilyOfAliens · 23/06/2019 21:35

You lost me when you used “discussion” as a verb.

Original poster
Trebe · 23/06/2019 21:35

@MIdgebabe I don't particularly want to get into the wage gap problem as its more mythical than anything else. Back in the day it was truer. I'm not saying it holds no truth but I think most people know how that statistic is used.

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