Liberated from what?

[Trebe]

OK I'm gonna try and approach this topic in as delicate a way as possible as the last thread I started did not go down well.

However within that thread there was a question I asked when someone said 'we want to be liberated', that question was, liberated from what?

Now before that pisses anyone off, I'm not saying women have nothing to be liberated from. I'm actually in the camp of thought that says there are things every people and person need liberating from.

The question however stands in my mind as I would like to know what feminist activists feel they need liberating from?

I think I would like to figure out what it is feminists feel is actively confining and liberating women alone. What is it you wish to be liberated from and how will that happen?

I'll even start it off. I believe that the liberation from the natural reproductive cycle is paramount to not just the liberation from that cycle but from poverty. I believe that effective contraception that a woman gets to choose to use has liberated countless people.

I think if more women, especially in religious countries, were to have access to effective contraception the world would be a better place for all.

Sorry for starting the same thread twice but I put it in the wrong area, if a mod could delete the other thread it would be greatly appreciated.

Trebe have you watched Killing Eve yet? I guarantee it's better quality entertainment than winding up feminists.

I'm not trying to wind up feminists. Not trying to be offensive. Not trying to be funny.

Treble

Back again after your attempt to revive a zombie thread you started failed?

The OP has started multiple threads on FWR pushing his ‘discussions’ or ‘debates’ but then attempts to control what is said. You may as well debate with a wall, except the wall performs a useful function.

Grey rock. Tissues.

I would like to be liberated from having to start at the ultra-basic, Ladybird Book of Feminism level of discussion, with every “now now ladies, I’ve put at least twelve minutes of thought into this so I think you need to listen to me” type of bloke who stumbles across the subject and demands an audience.

Im not accusing you of misogyny.

Im generalising as to why these kind of opening posts (and we see many) are irritating, and why you didn’t get the welcome pat on the back that you maybe expected.

And my personal experience is the gender pay gap is very real. You just negated my experience right there.

Ah screw it. Whats the point. I suppose you can take this as a win if that's how you want to see it.

I tried. Patiently.

I think you'd be happier focusing on your simultaneous posts on the 'dumb things to say during sex' thread

Yeah I posted on that thread saying I was starting to feel a bit sorry for Trebe, wish I'd read this thread first - any feelings of sympathy have just evaporated.

Trebe it is fascinating how you know that you've done more for women's rights than 50% of the women on a forum about women's rights. I have to say I have no idea what other women here have and haven't done, so I couldn't compare their accomplishments with mine. With such omniscience, how can we tell you anything you don't already know?

Bless

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0005t3n

This is a link to an episode of Analysis on radio 4 last week - a detailed exploration of the gender pay gap and related issues. Interesting listening, may answer some of your queries OP...

DpWm under what context did i say that?
Uh, under the context when you said it

Is it wrong that I am beginning to feel fond of this one?

I'll even start it off. I believe that the liberation from the natural reproductive cycle is paramount to not just the liberation from that cycle but from poverty. I believe that effective contraception that a woman gets to choose to use has liberated countless people.

I think if more women, especially in religious countries, were to have access to effective contraception the world would be a better place for all.

So the responsibility regarding reproduction falls solely to women, here's a radical idea why don't men take the responsibility? and you say you are not a misogynist, however, women must remain available for sex and ensure they don't get pregnant.

Ah screw it. Whats the point. I suppose you can take this as a win if that's how you want to see it.

I tried. Patiently

I had cause the other week to reflect on how many interactions with men follow this pattern.

Man interrupts woman with some pointless want of his own.

“Smile”
“What are you reading?”
“Show us your tits”
“Explain feminism to me”

Woman responds, but never quite satisfactorily. She smiles tentatively.
Fails to expose her breasts.
Doesn’t explain feminism.

Man loses temper.
“I was only being nice!”
“I only wanted you to feel objectified and intimidated”
“I was only expecting you to explain 250 years of feminist thought in a way I’d like!”

Male flounces off in a huff.
“Frigid bitch”
“Feminist”

Can't see much point in humouring Trebe but for other people who may be browsing and are genuinely interested, Maya Forstater's letter to her colleagues is quite good. It was written primarily about the gender debate but it's about the importance of being able to discuss women as a sex class. It includes a good overview of the challenges that women face due to our sex.
hiyamaya.net/2019/03/27/dear-feminists-of-the-tax-justice-network/

I always think that John Berger's 3rd essay from Ways of Seeing is very good and insightful. It discusses the way that culturally, men are treated and portrayed as actors/agents, whereas women are treated and portrayed as passive/objects. You can read it online here if you scroll down.
waysofseeingwaysofseeing.com/ways-of-seeing-john-berger-5.7.pdf

XenoBio

I’ve come to check you are feministische properly

I've got to say, the faux German auto correct here created a marvellously 'barking' quality to your depiction of the visitor. I liked it.

Floral

ROFL

I think going by the fact that the German keyboard was enabled, dd has been sneakily using my iPad for her homework. It would explain the decidedly odd autofill suggestions recently.

I won't actually leave this thread without saying this, I don't think I can.

If you're seeing an enemy in me, you must be seeing phantom enemies everywhere. That's the main thing I'll take from this thread.

Thank you to the people who answered the original question.

See, now I'm just amusing myself imagining daft male visitors to FWR demanding to know 'Ver iz ze Madonna wiz ze big boobies?' and the dog is wondering why I'm giggling.

Is it wrong that I am beginning to feel fond of this one?

God loves a trier.

But I have to be honest with you: I don't think Goddess is that keen.

FLASHING BEDKNOBS

🤣🤣🤣

If you're seeing an enemy in me, you must be seeing phantom enemies everywhere. That's the main thing I'll take from this thread.

Yeah that’s right. We’re all making it up. The 45 years of personal experience, along with everything I’ve read and heard from others, is all bollocks because you said so.

I don't think I can.

We don't either.

He’s a quitter - quelle suprise

Mermoose - thanks for the suggestions. I just read Maya Forstater’s letter and it’s excellent.