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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

SCOTTISH GRA REFORM ANNOUNCEMENT BROUGHT FORWARD

467 replies

Mbwashenzi · 18/06/2019 18:59

It was going to be announced on the 25th - now moved forward to Thursday. Anyone going to join me in the public gallery at Holyrood??

twitter.com/wornoutmumhack/status/1140953953758261248?s=19

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Popchyk · 20/06/2019 17:29

Yeah, this time last year it looked like an absolute sure thing. So well done to everyone for getting this far. But there will be a huge battle ahead to get heard.

Wonder how this affects the Westminster lot.

Cos there's no way in hell that they can push GRA reform through regardless now. They wouldn't dare. They have to consult more widely also.

Suspect that they might wait until they see how the Scottish consultation pans out.

OvaHere · 20/06/2019 17:33

Whilst browsing twitter I came across this tweet thread which was retweeted by forewomenscot and Simon Fanshawe. Worth a read.

twitter.com/alicetimmons/status/1141295688279572480

lazymare · 20/06/2019 17:34

There's lots of 'we've been let down by the SNP' on Twitter. But really they've been let down by Stonewall etc diluting the definitions so much, and by the aggressive porn anime bunch. No one wants to see genuine people suffer.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 20/06/2019 17:45

When they say none of the exemptions in the equality act will be changed, does that include primogeniture exemptions?

From the Scottish side yes. The equality act is reserved to Westminster so ScotGov can't touch it. Somerville said that they had asked and the UKGov have no intention of changing the act.

Cismyfatarse1 · 20/06/2019 17:49

I am not sure how you "Live as a woman" so, if you declare yourself one, and then do womaning wrong, you go to prison. Is that correct?

It makes no sense. Won't the law then have to provide a definition of what woman is beyond sex. Must wear dresses, change nappies, accept lower pay, enjoy wearing pink...

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 20/06/2019 17:53

Well, quite. Hopefully the second consultation on these specifics will show this whole thing up.

MockerstheFeManist · 20/06/2019 18:05

I am not sure how you "Live as a woman?" Must wear dresses, change nappies, accept lower pay, enjoy wearing pink...

"The suspect was observed holding a map the correct way up....."

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 20/06/2019 18:07

You don’t see many living as an age-appropriate woman do you? So often it’s an aping of a ‘young’ woman or older female child no matter their real age (or are we allowed to ID as eternal 18 now?) . I wonder why?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 20/06/2019 18:11

Yep, I'm looking forward to the legal definition of "living as a woman" and "living as a man"

HirplesWithHaggis · 20/06/2019 18:13

.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 20/06/2019 18:15

I think I live as a man quite a bit of the time - no makeup, often wear men’s clothes, do (actually likes) DIY, enjoy gardening...

littlbrowndog · 20/06/2019 18:22

Yeps.
How does living as a woman work. It’s a weird concept

If I live like a man does it turn me into a man

I don’t know how I would live as a man

I would still be a woman however I lived

littlbrowndog · 20/06/2019 18:24

Will there be inspections of clothes, telly watching, shoe wearing , housework , car mending. , car washing ,

It’s a totally weird and undoable concept to live as a woman

Cismyfatarse1 · 20/06/2019 18:32

Do you think they will have woman inspectors?

I am sorry. I am going to have to arrest you. Your nails are too short and you seem overly interested in Maths.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 20/06/2019 18:36

I know we are making jokes, but surely when it starts to get looked at properly in parliament they will see what a ridiculous proposition it is.

AFAIK all the countries who "led the way" didn't have much of an informed debate - they were lobbied and then the legislation was passed.

If in Scotland we have an informed debate, surely the legislation can't pass?

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 20/06/2019 18:36

On 16 April the suspect was witnessed being assertive at their place of work. Further more, that same evening the suspect was seen in broad daylight drinking a pint of beer.

I can be a woman inspector. pick me, pick me!

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 20/06/2019 18:37

the Equality Impact Assessments will be very telling if done properly I think. Even if not done properly, it will be handy to be able to point to a document full of holes and talk about the holes.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 20/06/2019 18:37

Well today I lugged Kota if heavy things around at work, swore rather a lot and farted in the lift. Just call me Jack.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 20/06/2019 18:38

Kota? Loads. I swear this autocorrect is having a laugh!

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 20/06/2019 18:42

Transcript of the statement is up:

news.gov.scot/speeches-and-briefings/statement-on-gender-recognition

(Some excerpts)

The Equality Act already allows trans people to be excluded from single sex services where that is proportionate and justifiable.

It is our view that this applies even where a trans person has legal recognition. The Government’s proposals to reform the Act will not affect that position.

This applies even where a trans person has legal recognition. The Government’s proposals to reform the Act will not affect that position.


This government has a duty to address the concern that reforming the process for gender recognition will increase the risks women face from men.

This government will therefore develop guidance that helps to bring clarity to these issues and ensures that policy makers and service providers better understand how to ensure that the hard won rights of both women and trans people can be collectively realised.

This will be used across the Scottish Government and available to all public authorities to help inform policy development and implementation. It will also of course be publicly available.

The Scottish Government recognises that in taking the unarguably good general principle of inclusivity, and developing specific recommendations, the approach risks potentially excluding other girls from female-only spaces. That cannot be right.

We have therefore decided to replace the LGBT Youth work with guidance from the Scottish Government.

the Scottish Government will establish a working group on sex and gender in data comprised of professionals from across statistical services. This will be led by and report to the Chief Statistician.

The working group will consider what guidance should be offered to public bodies on the collection of data on sex and gender including what form of data collection and disaggregation is most appropriate in different circumstances.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 20/06/2019 18:43

Equality Impact Assessments will be very telling if done properly

Is there such a thing as negative EIA, ie looking at the impact of the legislation is not changed?

OvaHere · 20/06/2019 18:46

The reply by SAS to the question about why the LGBT Youth guidance was withdrawn was interesting. It was a very carefully worded admittance that that it was dodgy and flawed and they were hoodwinked by it.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 20/06/2019 18:48

admittance that that it was dodgy and flawed and they were hoodwinked by it.

And if they can realise that, hopefully they can realise other things.

NonnyMouse1337 · 20/06/2019 18:53

Heartfelt thanks to all the women who worked tirelessly in opposing this and forming groups and publishing reports!

ScrimshawTheSecond · 20/06/2019 19:04

we should push to stop GRCs being given out

SAS kept mentioning how stressful the current GRC process is, and I kept thinking lets remove the stress by getting rid of the process

I'm in agreement. What purpose does a GRC serve?

Can't watch the parliament broadcast right now, so thanks to all who have live-reported it on here, most appreciated!

Thank you & well done to those who have spoken up on this. Joan McAlpine in particular, you deserve a medal.

Time to roll up our sleeves, then ...