Why can’t transgender lesbians just date each other?

[Hithere12]

I keep seeing online transgender women so angry a female lesbian doesn’t want to date someone trans, but it begs the question why can’t they just date each other?

If they genuinely believe a trans woman is without question a woman and they are attracted to women then surely this would solve all their problems in terms of finding a partner? They could just date each other? Unless they don’t want to date trans women because they don’t see trans women as real women? Hmm

its fine to not want to sleep with a lesbian who has a penis. But, if you won't sleep with them after they have had SRS, then its obviously transphobic.

Which makes it clear again that to the people theorising this, it's nothing more for women about what gets stuck in what hole.

Sexual attraction for women is way more than just sticking something into a hole, and males who desire women know this perfectly well, they just don't credit women as equally human with equally complex feelings and desires.

It really is not offensive to say that lesbians are biological women who exclusively desire biological women. That is not saying 'no one could ever fancy x' at all, that's a misinterpretation and it just shows the guilt and anxiety around stating boundaries that has come from all this gaslighting and pressure on women. 'Inclusive' has become a word to put a nice cover over 'rape culture'.

You cannot eat meat and dairy and still expect people to believe you when you say you are a vegan. Words have meanings.

I’m a bit uncomfortable discussing other people’s bodies / sex lives - including surgery decisions etc. Its none of my business (as long as nobody is harming anyone) - live and let live

Indeed however swapping heterosexual female for heterosexual male and husband for wife (and adding a couple of years) I'm also in agreement with AnyOldLabour. I find the idea of getting up close and personal to a vagina repulsive, regardless of how its owner identifies.

live and let live

I think if the TRA lobby were prepared to live and let live, women would not be having the problems they do, or raising these issues?

Most people are pretty certain about their sexual orientation by the time they are adults so yes, they are entitled to categorically state they wouldn't date a male/female, no matter how that person sees and presents themselves. If you find that offensive mindutopia then you might want to ask yourself why. Do you think people are obligated to date people they don't actually fancy?

There are men out there who are furious that women reject them for other women

By being trans, they have “solved” their problem.

its fine to not want to sleep with a lesbian who has a penis. But, if you won't sleep with them after they have had SRS, then its obviously transphobic

No it isn’t. Cosmetic surgery does not change someone’s biological sex.

Because they are heterosexual

I just can’t get past the phrase “ lesbian with a penis” , it’s kind of like “cat with wings”.

Its weird how some TRAs think about bodies. A woman isn’t a male with his penis removed and fake breasts. A man isn’t a female with no breasts and a fake penis.

I am not a lesbian, so I will describe my feelings in heterosexual terms. I am attracted to DH’s body because of his male shape: shoulders, chest, back, long legs, nice bum; his smell; his body hair; probably last of all his genitalia. I would imagine that lesbians are attracted to the shape of women’s bodies in a similar way: the curve of waist and hips, thighs, back muscles, curved arms etc.

It is almost as if they think some kind of android body is standard and then you add in breasts and vulva which equals a woman, or you add in a penis and testicles which equals a man. There is far more to being male and female than this.

summit.news/2019/06/17/study-only-3-of-straight-people-are-willing-to-date-a-transgender-person/

This has just been published. Only 3% of heterosexual people would date a trans person.

but it comes across as a bit offensive to make a blanket statement about 'I wouldn't date anyone with the characteristic xxx' because you don't really know everyone so you surely can't be certain.

I disagree. Its not offensive for a lesbian to state outright that she would not be attracted to a male person, or a person with a penis. As thats what sexuality is. To say thats offensive, says that anyone being gay or straight to start with is offensive! Trying to imagine straight men being told they are mean and offensive for saying they would not sleep with someone with a dick..

female lesbian is an oxymoron. By definition a lesbian is an adult human female.

No it isn’t. Cosmetic surgery does not change someone’s biological sex.

Indeed. TRAs seem to not get that its not just about the dick, its the sex, there is more to sex than genitals, even though they insist we are obsessed with genitals.

I cannot imagine how lesbians feel when confronted with this bullshit. I am bi so sleep with both sexes but fairly certain I could not find someone who tried to look feminine who had a dick sexy (different to feminine guy, which I do often find quite sexy, massive difference between basically..pretending to be a woman, thus hanging onto sexis stereotypes for dear life I think) and if i did, I might even hang back because basically, TRA types have given me a very bad image of trans people, I expect abuse, I expect constant going on about transition, I expect sexism..which is probably unfair as 'normal' transpeople won't be like that, but its what I think now after dealing with TRAs threatening to rape me and such for 3 years now.

A tautology surely?

I wish people would stop saying "lesbian with a penis". It's just so fucking offensive andd stupid. No lesbian ever had a penis and no lesbian would want sex with one on the basis that it's owner is 'really a woman,'. FFS!!!!

I suspect some of the difference in opinion on the idea of saying "no, never" really comes down to a personality type that doesn't like to make definitive statements about the future. I am that way, I almost never say I would never do something, I find it difficult to go farther than "I can't see that happening," even if it is something quite important to me.
Other people seem to feel quite differently about statements like that, whether they are about important or even unimportant things, they are very definitive.

Lesbians are turned on by women. They are attracted to their smell, their sex organs, breasts, curves, skin, hair, everything about them. Their essential femaleness.

Sorry, I know lesbian with a penis is a stupid term. I use it to highlight how stupid the ideology is generally. As anyone with a little sense knows that lesbians are exclusively women attracted to women, its only a few..and usually MRA/incel types, who think men can be lesbians and lesbians should bow to the mighty ladydick.

Lesbians can and do sometimes have sex with men, it happens and I agree never and ever are not helpful words. But lesbians do not believe, not really, Not in private, not truly, that a man with a penis is really a woman or really a lesbian. Nope.

Lesbians can and do sometimes have sex with men, it happens and I agree never and ever are not helpful words

Are you sure they aren’t bisexual? The lesbians I know would be repulsed by just the thought.

Lesbians can and do sometimes have sex with men, it happens and I agree never and ever are not helpful words.

This is the thing, isn't it? A homosexual woman making a decision about their sexual orientation - and that sometimes including other forms of sex as well as lesbian - is exploitable territory in argument to try and validate the idea that a heterosexual male can be a lesbian and expect homosexual women to have sex with him.

Except no, lesbian is a homosexual woman. A male born person has a whole host of sexual orientations available to him encompassing all options, with full freedom of choice that may vary over a lifetime, but 'lesbian' isn't one of them.

Insisting it is more important to validate a chosen female identity by warping a woman's term for women only sex, and then from that stand point pivoting to say all homosexual women must now include males in their sex life if the males choose a female identity - is batshit. And abusive.

And yet here we are, trying to argue our right to be lesbian. And not have our terms, our identities, our legal rights stolen in the name of a male who wants freedom to choose them if he wants to.

Are you sure they aren’t bisexual? The lesbians I know would be repulsed by just the thought.

People sometimes have sex with someone they aren't really attracted to, maybe not for sexual pleasure. Though some people do seem more able to enjoy sex without much reference to whether they are actually attracted to the other person.

Also many people might not consider a one-off type of situation enough to change how they thought of their sexuality generally speaking.

Any case, what I was getting at was more that if some people don't like to be definite about the future, it may not reflect a real difference of opinion, so it might not be something to get bogged down in. I think its unreasonable to expect people to be attracted to a particular sex which they aren't attracted to normally just because they change their clothes and call themselves lesbians, even though I might not say never ever.

People sometimes have sex with someone they aren't really attracted to, maybe not for sexual pleasure. Though some people do seem more able to enjoy sex without much reference to whether they are actually attracted to the other person

Well they shouldn’t are you a trans person advocating for women to have sex with someone they aren’t attracted to