Why can’t transgender lesbians just date each other?

[Hithere12]

I keep seeing online transgender women so angry a female lesbian doesn’t want to date someone trans, but it begs the question why can’t they just date each other?

If they genuinely believe a trans woman is without question a woman and they are attracted to women then surely this would solve all their problems in terms of finding a partner? They could just date each other? Unless they don’t want to date trans women because they don’t see trans women as real women? Hmm

I've only discussed this with one lesbian friend. Her attitude is "I don't do the cock". So she won't ever be dating a transwoman however pretty their dress.

Whatis thank you for that post, it's very articulate and to the point. I'm sorry for the shit lesbians are having to put up with these days.

Saw a tweet yesterday saying it's our duty! Thought we were in 1984 but more like 1954 now.

Lie back and think of England..... it's incel and MRA thinking. And highly narcissistic thinking. And 'women are subhuman and just there to service men' thinking. As indefensible as demanding that homosexual women 'learn to cope with' providing sex to penis owners (their enjoyment of sex or right to choice not even mentioned, it's accepted this means abandoning their preference for the Greater Good) because it's unacceptable that biological women should not meet men's sexual needs.

And men now have a new sexual need, which is that they wish to be provided with sex with homosexual women, in order to validate their self perception of themselves as a woman.

There is no way to get around the facts here:

This agenda uses women for sexual work and denies them autonomy

This agenda is homophobic - the right of men to use women's bodies is greater than the right of women to choose a sex life that excludes males

This agenda separates males who identify as women from biological women, clearly recognising a factual difference in order to lay down the very different entitlements for each group, and involves compelled speech and servicing of belief from biological women.

Women are fucking furious about this and are staggered there's anyone with a brain who can't see why the Emperor needs to get their clothes back on and stop being an arse.

And yes, I will repeat, as a lesbian who was told on the FWR board the other day that I was homophobic for refusing to accept that lesbianism can involve penises and lesbian is a label anyone can choose if they want to...

There are many other identities you can embrace for your sexuality but if you're talking about anything but exclusive sexual orientation between biological natal females, lesbian is not one of them.

If you want to argue that, then you have a problem with respecting women's boundaries and the word 'no'.

Because they don’t want to suck or fondle or have to deal with penis-pleasure

Whole different 'mouthfeel', apparently. not envy

I’m very confused by some of the responses on here. OP knows the answer to her own question (biology!) and is trying to point out the hypocrisy of some mtf trans people who believe they are entitled to sex with lesbians, and are angry when lesbians don’t necessarily fancy them (because they argue that they are women) but also don’t seem keen on having sex with other mtf trans people (because they fancy women!).

The people saying ‘maybe they don’t fancy them ’ are missing the fact that this is OPs point.

People shouldn’t have to have sex with people they don’t feel attracted to, and you can’t have it both ways.

That's exactly what I thought OP was getting at too.

Buzz in one of the original articles written about the perceived need to overcome the cotton ceiling, the writer quite innocently bewailed that lesbians just wouldn't realise that their penis would feel completely different in their vagina to the way a man's penis would feel. And added a hurt and bewildered 'they resist the penis!'.

It's very sad reading, that poor person. Where GC women and TRAs differ is that to GC women what is sad is their total lack of self awareness and inability to step outside their own needs or to see other people as anything but tools to meet their needs, which dooms them to more and more unhappiness. Not the fact that meanie lesbians won't put them first and give them sex.

I had my comment deleted so I'll rewrite so it meets TGs.

I was referring to a young couple on Louis Theroux's "Transgender Kids" doc who were both born male, one had had surgery, the other was discussing the proposed surgery. Both seemed very happy and fulfilled in the relationship and neither spoke about their sexuality so I don't know if they would label themselves lesbians or gay.

This is one example but I also see discussions online that would confirm OPs concerns and how Lesbians are being impacted. I know this is vague. Trying to get my point across without being deleted again.

The people saying ‘maybe they don’t fancy them’ are missing the fact that this is OPs point

Yes that was my point I was making. That they are hypocrites.

A 'transbian' will not shag another transbian because they know that they transbian is male. Hence someone attracted to females just would not want them. Oddly enough though, this does not go for lesbians who refuse transbians. Those horrible people are just bigotted vagina fetishists.

I do think some 'transbians' date each other. But, it seems the vast majority want an actual lesbian partner, rater than another male, which is fair enough given thats how sexuality works! Shame this is not applied to female people and their sexuality though.

What makes me angry is men can be really virulently transphobic or even violent towards trans people and no one says a word

Oh my god I know. Watch any right wing YouTube channel and it’s full of transphobia. Paul Joseph Watson’s videos making fun of transgender people have millions of views, yet all their anger is directed towards the “terfs”

I have seen it claimed too, that its fine to not want to sleep with a lesbian who has a penis. But, if you won't sleep with them after they have had SRS, then its obviously transphobic. Which is, again bonkers as absically..a neovagina is not a vagina.

I have slept with women, and men. I am bisexual. I would not want to sleep with someone who had a neovagina, and I don't think that makes me transphobic in the slightest. Many would disagree though.

Again, even with SRS though, 'transbians' get a pass as..they may find it triggering to sleep with a male person. Women who have been raped apparently get a temporary pass, but they should work through their 'issues' as quickly as possible else they are just transphobes too.

This cotton ceiling crap makes me rage so much, so apologies if my posts come across aggressive or something. Its just vile, the way lesbians are treat these days and how the pressure is on to get them to sleep with males. Tey have always been pressured to sleep with males tbf, but now they are bigoted if they stand firm in their no.

*a neovagina is not a vagina. And a male person is not female, regardless of what srgeries have been done.

I meant to say, chopped off a sentence somehow.

From the very outset, when I became aware of this whole thorny, confusing subject back last October, I still cannot get my head around how a transwoman can expect/hope to form a sexual relationship with a lesbian.
Around an hour ago, I found an article by everyone's favourite Labour "women's officer", where they are dealing with "transphobia" after having their advances rejected by a lesbian.
The first comment after the article by "sunshiney day" gives a real insight into what has happened.

"A young lesbian at your uni and halls broke up from her LT girlfriend and you made advances. She is not attracted to males (the clue is in the word “lesbian”) and so, as politely as possible, she turned you down.
In response, you threw a tantrum, went off in a huff, blocked her, and then took to social media and even wrote this revenge article on Medium in order to “shame” her, by pretending she is “transphobic”. She is nothing of the sort."

medium.com/@lilymadigan/believe-trans-people-when-they-call-out-transphobia-d37a5e86dc2d

It’s all so bloody obvious that there are only three types of people: The ones who are rubbing their cocks in anticipation; the ones who are too bloody gullible to see it; and the ones who are waving red flags and shouting into the wind

This

Madigan is a vindictive narcissist.

Well, my good friend who is a trans woman only dates women (because she is attracted to women and has only ever been attracted to women, even when she was a man) and her partner is also a trans woman. But I don't think she is attracted to 'lesbians' per se. Her previous partner was a cis heterosexual woman. That said, cis hetero friend is now marrying a trans man. And all parties are very happy about it.

No one has to date/have sex with anyone they don't want to, but it comes across as a bit offensive to make a blanket statement about 'I wouldn't date anyone with the characteristic xxx' because you don't really know everyone so you surely can't be certain. I've generally only been attracted to white men in my life, but if I were single, I would never say 'I would never date a black man' (because how can you say that for sure? Never mind you would come across as racist...). You love who you love and sometimes who you end up loving is not who you expect.

A fake fanny constructed out of scrotal skin, erm, no thanks. It’s nothing like a woman. Even if that particular body part was all that mattered no surgeon could replicate the real thing.

I’m sorry if it sounds harsh, but if someone decides to have that done to themselves they need to understand that their pool of potential sexual partners is going to shrink considerably. Lesbians are not responsible for them making that decision and we won’t be held responsible for making up the shortfall. And anybody who thinks there’s no difference really hasn’t been appreciating their female partners very much.

It’s not offensive to “make a blanket statement” that I don’t do dick / vagina (as applicable).

If someone defining their own sexuality offends you, it’s your problem not theirs. Some people are hetero / homosexual. Get over it.

And for the love of all that is holy. Please do NOT use these awful, false analogies involving Black people. It’s racist and I’m sick of it.

(That was in response to mind)

Having said that. I’m a bit uncomfortable discussing other people’s bodies / sex lives - including surgery decisions etc. Its none of my business (as long as nobody is harming anyone) - live and let live.

"but it comes across as a bit offensive to make a blanket statement about 'I wouldn't date anyone with the characteristic xxx' because you don't really know everyone so you surely can't be certain."

I am a bloke who has been married to a wonderful woman for twenty nine years, and before I married her, I was only attracted to human females - women.
I have never been sexually attracted to males.
I certainly do not see anything changing at this stage in my life.
I certainly do not find anything offensive about having a view about something and sticking to that view - it is called personal choice.
Attempting to force somebody to accept behaviour which goes against their personal belief/choice, is coercive behaviour at the very least.