Why can’t transgender lesbians just date each other?

[Hithere12]

I keep seeing online transgender women so angry a female lesbian doesn’t want to date someone trans, but it begs the question why can’t they just date each other?

If they genuinely believe a trans woman is without question a woman and they are attracted to women then surely this would solve all their problems in terms of finding a partner? They could just date each other? Unless they don’t want to date trans women because they don’t see trans women as real women? Hmm

Yeah, that woman definitely tried to escape from your car due to your driving .

Does this remind anyone of the popper-inners threads, where the pop-in person never gets why their uninvited presence is unwelcome 🤔

Apologies if i was unclear, but the woman was in different car, exited her vehicle and attempted to get me out of my car to engage in a fight with me

If you wish to be seen as an unwelcoming community to more neutral or opinionated people who might otherwise view you as welcoming, reasonable, and kind then I think disrespect is the way to go.

I choose to continue to inform, stand my ground politely and express information accurately :-)

Veronica is definitely in the US @RoseslnTheHospital, if they are carrying mace. And going to the store where men help them pull the cart out. I think it was pull the cart out, anyway. I was falling asleep by that point in the essay.

Actually, @Veronicawiththefacts, why do you need help with your cart? Why can't you do it yourself? As we women usually have to. I have to do every damn thing myself: put up shelves, unblock drains, do the garden, put the bins out (trash cans to Veronica).

Life is so glamorous as a woman.

Ah now you’ve pushed it too far, no one gets stalked ‘often’. You might find it lovely in your fantasy world, but come into the real word every so often, the air is so fresh and clean.

How does someone objecting to your driving become about finding you sexually threatening? What?

by threatened I mean in the sense of sexual competition

hoo boy

we’ve got a live one

This is reminiscent of comments by Paris Lees and others. That being a woman is about being sexual all the time with men, in all situations being sexually available. Even when shopping for groceries or driving a car. It's all about being sexually objectified.

I never said life was all about glamour, and I never said I can’t do all these things for myself. Happily I can for the time being. yes I have been stalked. I lived in major cities for a while and took public transportation. I had some followers during that time. I’ve also been followed to my residence once in a car and by cars several times with men attempting to speak to me while i was on foot, some of which turned around to come back towards where I was. It was scary, and I don’t understand why someone would want to deny a crime occurred if I felt threatened and that was traumatic. I don’t see why this would be responded to in such a way regardless of someone’s gender.

That had nothing to do with feeling sexually threatened. I’m responding to multiple people and it’s not the easiest thing to manage everyone’s questions and comments. I’m just one person and I apologize if things become unclear at points

That’s not what being a woman is about. Again I never said that. My point was to describe how these things are. I don’t relish in these events, but they stand in contrast to the narrative that was in place before I commented and I felt that some accuracy was needed. I try not to draw any validation from others and I dont need anyone’s acceptance either as a woman or a human being.

Oh right, that’s not stalking though is it? That’s someone apparently following you, and that has happened to me countless times over the years, and I do mean countless. That certainly doesn’t mean that I’m irresistible to men, it just means that some men are fucking arseholes and won’t take no for an answer.
And if it did happen, and if it was traumatic for you then I’m sorry to hear that, and in no way want to minimise your trauma. But stalking is a whole other ball game, I had a friend who was stalked and she is still massively affected to this day.

Also Beyoncé is incredibly beautiful! I love her music and how empowering it is. She’s a strong woman.

I’m not saying that every man who shows some amount of sexual interest would date me or be with me, just that I can gauge a level of interest that was once absent in most exchanges. If you transitioned, perhaps you would be more aware of the nuances of the differences in social interactions and cues, or perhaps not. But I don’t think it’s surprising that gender plays a major role in one person’s treatment of another, and that human sexuality enters into a small portion of social exchanges that are even small or superficial. Thanks for your comment.

If that doesn’t qualify as proper stalking definitionally, I apologize for using the wrong language. I did have a man who was coming to my literal door for weeks and trying to look into my window who I said I was not interested in being with. I also had a male who tried to sleep with me and I said no to who started sending me harassing texts from unknown numbers threatening my safety. Both events occurred this year. Would this be a more appropriate use of the term stalking? I slept with a knife next to my bed and bear spray for weeks.

Whilst this is all very nice, I don’t see what relevance this has to lesbians only being same-sex interested. It seems to me that you’ve reduced women down to an overtly feminine physical appearance and how women are viewed through a male gaze. Non of this matters to women who are only attracted to other (biological) women.

Door lurker is stalking. Harassing texter was harassing you. By UK definitions anyway.

Do you think that people are stalked and harassed because of their levels of sexual attraction to men?

@Veronicawiththefacts Respectfully, by your own telling of your life, you’re a bisexual male, who has more experience with male partners. What makes you think you have any insight into what life is actually like for a lesbian today? A female that is looking for a female partner, and finding that the limited means of finding a partner that we had, have been colonised by males LARPing as lesbians? Who shame us for our completely valid sexual orientation. It might not align with your experience, but for some of us, it is OUR lived experience that there are males who harass us and threaten us for not being attracted to them. It’s homophobia rebranded.

Its not my opinion of what a lesbian is. You don't have opinions on what a lesbian is. Thats like saying you can have an opinion of what a dog is. Or a cow. Or a tree. You can have an opinion on it, but it doesn't change material reality.

A lesbian is a female attracted to other biological females only. The word is homoSEXual. There is a clue in there.

Abusing the english language to benefit a dominant group in society is the stuff of Orwell. Its an abuse of power. Trying to redefine the word lesbian to include males in any way, is a clear example of an attempt to do this.

I'm noting at this point the following as its relavant to the debate and needs to be highlighted: you are a male, mansplaining the meaning of lesbian to females. Lesbians - as in females only attracted to females - are not allowed to define themselves. Instead, you think you having an opinion is not only important, its MORE important than females being able to have a word to describe themselves. Because you're male. A bi-sexual male. For whom the importance of the word lesbian and having safe spaces to be a lesbian away from males isn't even on your radar. Its not something you give value to. Indeed you think its abhorent as a concept for females to expect to be free from male sexual attention, because the validity of male identity is more important than women being sexually harassed. Which says a hell of a lot about you. Not me.

Not only that, but 'Homosexual' is also written into and defined in law. And protected by law. People are trying to change the law and this will negatively impact homosexual women for the benefit of hetrosexual/bisexual men. This is why discrimination laws to protect women were written in the first place. To protect females from males.

But of course, its all about females on this thread being ignorant. Not fed up of sexual harassment. Or fed up of males deciding everything about identity must be male centred and put males first. Because male 'opinions' are more important than material reality.

A lesbian can never be male. You can try and muck about with language - because thats about controlling women - but a lesbian will only ever be female. Because sex is not gender. And trans women are all male.

thanks for your comment. It’s not all nice.it’s simply reality. My goals with my original post were to answer the op’s question, and provide relevant information about life experiences for a perhaps unaware audience based on my personal experiences.

what I did say is that absolutely some self-identified lesbians are attracted to transexual woman, and some would have transexual women partners. This is simply factual.

I further stated that the process of transitioning medically, biologically informs the way our bodies are viewed and a part of physical attraction. It’s physiology. If you’re changing physically as a result of estrogen and so on, definitionally you’re going to become more attractive to people who like the effects that estrogen has on the human body. people respond to that hormone in different ways and all look different, which is why women all look different and have different genes and everything and not all lesbians are physically attracted to all other lesbians. This does have implications for lesbians and men and really in my experience just a whole lot of people in general.

what else I said was that attraction is not simply physical, and even the most feminine beauty queen won’t be desired by many lesbians because of their ideology, because what they bring to bear upon that body, as whole people, upon finding something out they don’t like, namely disapproval for their status as trans. They might not like that. Nobody said they had to. But to answer the question of why that is is to understand how attraction is informed by beliefs as well as biology and physiology. I never made a value judgment about it. I was simply expressing what things are like, and why I think they’re like that based on my experiences.

thanks

I have actually shed tears laughing at this. Thank you.

I further stated that the process of transitioning medically, biologically informs the way our bodies are viewed and a part of physical attraction. It’s physiology. If you’re changing physically as a result of estrogen and so on, definitionally you’re going to become more attractive to people who like the effects that estrogen has on the human body. people respond to that hormone in different ways and all look different, which is why women all look different and have different genes and everything and not all lesbians are physically attracted to all other lesbians. This does have implications for lesbians and men and really in my experience just a whole lot of people in general.

Plastic surgery and hormones do not change bodies to look / feel female to the degree you suggest.

Women don't have different genes (to each other? Men?) because of estrogen.

The action of estrogen on a male body is not the same as the actions of the naturally occurring hormones in a woman's body. Estrogen being only one of many.

You as a male person taking estrogen are not physiologically similar to me as a woman with a normal female hormonal system. You are a male taking cross sex hormones. I am not.

Thanks,

You may feel that way about the transsexuals you have encountered, but it is not true of all transsexuals, and it may not be true or some transsexuals you didn’t even realize were trans.

There is a great diversity in the physical characteristics of both men and women. And if women, among others, are quite literally unaware of my status, which has occurred, what makes you think initial attraction won’t occur? That’s a strange opinion to me.

Both events occurred this year.

We are only on week 6 of this year.