Use of trans identified male as opposed to transwoman No2.

[happydappy2]

MNHQ There has been much written recently about how the controlling of the words we use, is very misleading. Many women reject the word transwoman as it can be misunderstood. In light of this, would you reconsider yr guidelines that Trans Identified Male can not be used? It would seem a more factually accurate description of a human male who presents in a stereotypically female way. Thank you.

Speaking of compelled pronouns Itsall I've just noticed Debbie Hayton announcing on Twitter that he's not bothered about being called 'he' so I thought I would drop this screenshot onto this thread because its may be useful in the future for those of us who use accurate language to post without fear of getting deleted because of MNHQ rules. At least when the subject is him in particular.

And the 15 people who secretly PMed me agreed

Sorry, I don't get why this is relevant? Why does who PM's you what come into it?
I can say that I've had a lot of PM's too recently saying thank you for being a biological woman and understanding. There's been a fair few of those.
I've also had some from on here when posting a bit more GC that they might not agree with my views but they accept my right to say it. Funny how I now agree with them lol. As I said on the other thread, these types of threads turns people and it did someone on the other thread too like @SuePerbly

It's a joke.

They're not claiming to say just women

Plenty are. Plenty are now claiming 'female' also.

To be clear, I have no interest in compelling the speech of transpeople either. They can refer to themselves however they wish; the same courtesy needs to be extended to women, however. No more calling women 'c*s", if that's not how they identify, and no more forcing women to use terms that accept the utterly bonkers fallacy that men can be women.

They're worth following for further informtion about Coercive Control

Fair enough. That'd be interesting. How is it relevant here though? Who is coercive controlling? It seems like you just shoehorn in reams of facts and links to accuse them of being something if you don't agree.

It's a joke.

What is?

I honestly was wondering that too and how the reams of seemingly irrelevant links and text had to do with what was being discussed.

I think you must have missed the first half of the thread LimeKiwi.
We were discussing the importance of language & feminist theory in relation to male violence against women & children.

Dr Julia Long's speech provides an excellent explanation.
The link is here: pastebin.com/nGwr3i4U

HTH

Thank you DH for (meeting the low bar of) not compelling women's speech.

It seems like you just shoehorn in reams of facts and links to accuse them of being something if you don't agree.

Could we not start with the false allegations please?

What is?

I'll leave it to you to work out.

I think you must have missed the first half of the thread LimeKiwi.
We were discussing the importance of language & feminist theory in relation to male violence against women & children

No, I read it all. I just wondered how it was relevant when it just randomly popped up at the end of the thread. If you said it at the beginning and relevant fair enough but bizarre to pop back up again right at the end with a coercive control link right after others saying things you disagreed with.

Could we not start with the false allegations please

That's how it comes across.

In this instance, it ends with Maria MacLachlan giving evidence in court against the person who assaulted her and being instructed by the judge to perjure herself by erroneously referring to her attacker as "she", then having to watch the judge reduce the sentence given after the guilty verdict because Maria had "misgendered" her attacker.

It's about women getting Twitter bans for referring to Ian Huntley as "he" (even though it later transpired the whole rumour was entirely unfounded).

Compelled speech is wrong.

Maria Maclachlan wrote about how this impacted her.

That women & girls could in the future be compelled to refer to a rapist with she/her pronouns is horrifying.

That women & girls could in the future be compelled to refer to a rapist with she/her pronouns is horrifying.

It is.

Or as a "woman".

Transwomen are not women because they are men.

I'm not trying to be mean, here: it is a fact. Men are not women.

I just wondered how it was relevant when it just randomly popped up at the end of the thread. If you said it at the beginning and relevant fair enough but bizarre to pop back up again right at the end with a coercive control link right after others saying things you disagreed with.

Thats easy to explain.
Id been away, offline & was just catching up.

Its important for women to recognise & be able to identify male pattern abuse, coercive control patterns etc

HTH

Its important for women to recognise & be able to identify male pattern abuse, coercive control patterns etc

OK, I agree with that, it is. How is it important to do that though when you do it right after several women disagreeing with you?
You do it a lot.

We recognise men when we see them.

And when we read them online.

This thread is starting to look a lot like the original thread and I'm wondering why anyone is bothering to respond to the incredibly tedious and repetitive questions all over again?

Disagreeing with you means your view in general being expressed, not you explicitly before someone says she wasn't on the thread since the beginning of whatever.

We recognise men when we see them

And when we read them online

OK. Who's a man on this thread? As I'm not.

And when we read them online.

Yes. I had the disconcerting experience of 'hearing' a male voice - an angry male voice' online from someone who is pretty much a poster person for the way GC feminists wish transexual people would be - open about her sex, critical of gender, and an open ally of women. Acknowledges her male socialisation.

But this one tweet - it sounded like all the other angry men in my life have sounded. I've backed away from following or listening to this person since. Because male socialisation is one hell of a drug, and takes a lifetime to dismantle, and under pressure, it can re-emerge as a very male-patterned anger.

I wish this person well, and I think they are doing the hard yards of living with GD, and trying to dismantle their socialisation, but yes, she read very male in that moment.

*We recognise men when we see them.

And when we read them online.*

This.

Because male socialisation is one hell of a drug, and takes a lifetime to dismantle, and under pressure, it can re-emerge as a very male-patterned anger.

YY