Use of trans identified male as opposed to transwoman No2.

[happydappy2]

MNHQ There has been much written recently about how the controlling of the words we use, is very misleading. Many women reject the word transwoman as it can be misunderstood. In light of this, would you reconsider yr guidelines that Trans Identified Male can not be used? It would seem a more factually accurate description of a human male who presents in a stereotypically female way. Thank you.

The thread certainly made an impact.

But I’d like to say actually that in light of the thread, that one PM I received once it had finished did make me remember that transmen and woman are real people and they do read the posts.

While we’re debating a word, this is their lives and identity and I think it is worth pointing that out.

Why can't we be allowed to see for ourselves that the person we are looking at is a man, when he is a man?

Yeah, and women and girls are real people too, and no-one seems to have any trouble giving away their rights or compelling their language.

It is tedious, isn't it Datun? It's like being forced to use religious language even though you're an atheist.

How is that relevant to the thread exactly? You know it’s frowned upon to go off topic so I expect you had a point in mind

I honestly was wondering that too and how the reams of seemingly irrelevant links and text had to do with what was being discussed.

It is tedious, isn't it Datun? It's like being forced to use religious language even though you're an atheist.

The swift exposure of an obvious agenda was useful. But yeah.

While we’re debating a word, this is their lives and identity and I think it is worth pointing that out

Agree

Yeah, and women and girls are real people too, and no-one seems to have any trouble giving away their rights or compelling their language.

Indeed. I have to read how being a woman is merely a state of mind and women aren't a distinct sex class from men, as an oppressed group, and don't deserve sex based rights. It depresses and offends me.

And the 15 people who secretly PMed me agreed.

As this is a new thread I will repost this link, which is well worth a read:

uncommongroundmedia.com/banned-from-medium-pronouns-are-rohypnol/

And again, I would be happy for my kid to be under the supervision of any of these women posting about wanting to reclaim their own words for their own class.

It is not in the best interests of gender confused kids to have their resilience undermined by people telling them words are literal violence, and that anyone who doesn't correctly gender them wants them dead.

I really object to this running narrative from genderists. Kids with GD can be just as resilient as the kid with cancer, or the kid with depression, or the kid with a congenital birth defect. They're not some fragile, broken thing.

We are all (I assume) woman here standing up for woman. Trans people don’t usually have a voice on these threads. I think it’s easy to go ‘them’ and ‘us’

Which is why I felt it was worth reminding you that they are real people and not just a pawn in a power struggle.

The swift exposure of an obvious agenda was useful. But yeah

Don't know who you're referring to, but no agenda here. Just me with my opinion. Like people tend to do

Yes they are real people. As are the women on this thread.

While we’re debating a word, this is their lives and identity and I think it is worth pointing that out.

Exactly! You get it! It's the lives and identity of women and girls and there's millions of us and the word women should not be used to describe male bodied people as it can result (as we now know even though they said it'd never happen) in assaults and abuse and I wholeheartedly agree that that is worth pointing out.

Bravo!

We are all (I assume) woman here standing up for woman. Trans people don’t usually have a voice on these threads. I think it’s easy to go ‘them’ and ‘us’ Which is why I felt it was worth reminding you that they are real people and not just a pawn in a power struggle

Well said. From another woman

And why can't we say so on a parenting website - that women are women and men are men?

There is a physical and biological reality involved, here.

And men are not women.

E.g., when men are looking for a surrogate to sell them a child. Do they ask this of transwomen? Or even trans women?

No, they don't! Their surrogate must be a biological woman, for obvious reasons.

We all know what a woman is. And a woman is not a man, and a man is not a woman.

I have to read how being a woman is merely a state of mind and women aren't a distinct sex class from men, as an oppressed group, and don't deserve sex based rights. It depresses and offends me.

It depresses and offends me too, and undermines my sense of being valued as a woman in society. In fact, it tells me I am disposable, and worth very little.

Luckily, women are girls are very resilient, mostly because we have to be.

It depresses and offends me too, and undermines my sense of being valued as a woman in society. In fact, it tells me I am disposable, and worth very little.

This. Exactly.

I find it's always useful to focus on the practical consequences of ideology.

In this instance, it ends with Maria MacLachlan giving evidence in court against the person who assaulted her and being instructed by the judge to perjure herself by erroneously referring to her attacker as "she", then having to watch the judge reduce the sentence given after the guilty verdict because Maria had "misgendered" her attacker.

It's about women getting Twitter bans for referring to Ian Huntley as "he" (even though it later transpired the whole rumour was entirely unfounded).

Compelled speech is wrong.

Which is why I felt it was worth reminding you that they are real people

This is ridiculous. Most of us know transpeople in our work or personal lives; some of us live with transpeople or are related to transpeople. I don't think I'm in any bloody danger of forgetting that the two people I live with are, in fact, human. For example.

I spend my energy and love and material resources onthe two transpeople close to me. Would be nice to see genderists spend some on women and girls.

Where is R0wantrees on this thread? And you want to talk about off topic?

It's the exact same topic. Carried on. As in same title and then No 2 added
So still on topic for who asked it.

and there's millions of us and the word women should not be used to describe male bodied people

They're saying trans women though. They're not claiming to say just women.

Compelled speech is wrong.

That's actually all there is to say, really.

And yes, for me MM was the red line. Punishing a woman because she wouldn't use compelled speech.

And having a discussion with some self proclaimed trans allies who insisted that a rapist in a court room should be called by his preferred pronouns by his victim.

No compelled speech.

Since were carrying on, rowantrees, you went right off topic near the end of the last thread with a post about mobbing, a form of trolling

No It was an interesting article by an organisation which is raising awareness of Coercive Control behaviours.

They're worth following for further informtion about Coercive Control.
They issue newsletters & conferences so it doesnt just have to be via Twitter

I had been attempting to post about male violence against women & children, the importance of power dynamics, abusive patterns of behaviour etc

(extract)
"And to better understand the motivations behind those who commit online abuse, we need to better understand the many tactics employed by abusive personality types- especially those who want to be seen as NOT abusing.
The perpetrators who reside below the radar.
As someone who has been raising awareness and better the understanding of #coercivecontrol, I have been struck by the many similarities shared by certain online abusers and coercive and controlling ex partners. This is especially true of those who partake of online #mobbing."
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1110452108183195649.html

The organisation also have some other long threads:

(extract)
"One of the most effective ways of assessing whether someone has an abusive personality type is to observe their social media interaction over time, particularly how they respond to criticism.There are significant ‘tells’ which indicate a personality type that needs to be avoided." (continues)
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1110452108183195649.html

(extract)
"To understand coercive control.
To REALLY understand it, you need to understand how manipulators work. The things they know they can do, to bring us to our knees." (continues)

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1106169274761129984.html

Luckily, women are girls are very resilient, mostly because we have to be.

Indeed!